The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

[Shotgun Rico]

Cheaper than 1500

Oh ok I got ya. I was checking Amazon and they have the Audio Technica auto lifter but it’s $120. Putting that on the 100c unfortunately that brings the price slightly over the 1500c.

 

[Drakon]

It's an endless money pit if you are susceptible, beware.

Agreed. That hill goes from bunny to double black diamond quickly. Like being involved at an auction you can get caught up and spend more than you wanted or certainly needed.

Let the specs help guide you. Listen and get the options that fit your needs. Perhaps you will be less likely too wake up with buyers remorse.

 

[goat76]

Agreed. That hill goes from bunny to double black diamond quickly. Like being involved at an auction you can get caught up and spend more than you wanted or certainly needed.

Let the specs help guide you. Listen and get the options that fit your needs. Perhaps you will be less likely too wake up with buyers remorse.

No buyer's remorse here.
About 9 months later, I’m very satisfied with my choice of the Technics SL-1200GR2 turntable and the Audio-Technica AT33PTH/II cartridge. Not a very cheap turntable, but the build quality is high and it's a breeze setting it up with all the well-thought-out fine-adjustment controls.

New vinyl records are quite expensive, but I still think they are worth it. There is something special about the sound and I find it satisfying to put on a record. The artwork of the large sleeves is also a nice thing to have. Most of the vinyl records I have bought to this point are very dear to me, so they are definitely worth it.

 

[mike70]

New vinyl records are quite expensive

the same price than in 80s (at constant prices) ... they were always expensive

 

[MatrixS2000]

the same price than in 80s (at constant prices) ... they were always expensive

I buy most of my records from Bandcamp. There, any vinyl purchases usually include the digital downloads also (I don’t recall any of my purchases from Bandcamp, not including them), so that should factor into the price/LP calculation also, if you do such a thing. I don’t, I buy the albums I want.

 

[mike70]

I buy most of my records from Bandcamp. There, any vinyl purchases usually include the digital downloads also (I don’t recall any of my purchases from Bandcamp, not including them), so that should factor into the price/LP calculation also, if you do such a thing. I don’t, I buy the albums I want.

i buy what i like / want also ... only i don't buy the "special" editions, mofi, etc.
In my opinion, it's not worth it.

 

[Shotgun Rico]

i buy what i like / want also ... only i don't buy the "special" editions, mofi, etc.
In my opinion, it's not worth it.

I have the mofi version of Van Halen’s 1984 on its way this week. I’ve never owned a mofi before I’m looking forward to hearing if it’s an improvement over my US original. I also like the Kevin Grey remasters I think they are worth it.

 

[mike70]

I have the mofi version of Van Halen’s 1984 on its way this week. I’ve never owned a mofi before I’m looking forward to hearing if it’s an improvement over my US original. I also like the Kevin Grey remasters I think they are worth it.

It's OK, please comment your findings

 

[MatrixS2000]

I have the mofi version of Van Halen’s 1984 on its way this week. I’ve never owned a mofi before I’m looking forward to hearing if it’s an improvement over my US original. I also like the Kevin Grey remasters I think they are worth it.

Do you have the ability to digitize? I have the original release and would be interesting to compare.

 

[Shotgun Rico]

I don’t at the moment. I have a new turntable arriving today and that one is going in my living room. My other table does have usb out for digitizing so hopefully I can set that one up in other room where I have computer based setup.

 

[Eric Natural]

my favorite singer has a new record out in AUG.
I see vinyl copies presale $40 which I don't think is terrible(w/zero commercial interest here:=)
single is out

 

[Soniclife]

my favorite singer has a new record out in AUG.
I see vinyl copies presale $40 which I don't think is terrible(w/zero commercial interest here:=)
single is out

A few weeks ago I was thinking there was a big gap since the previous album, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Newman]

No buyer's remorse here.
About 9 months later, I’m very satisfied with my choice of the Technics SL-1200GR2 turntable and the Audio-Technica AT33PTH/II cartridge.

That cartridge has always bemused me. Several of my audio buddies have chosen and lived with AT33 variants, yet the design is ancient. IIRC it was conceived as a broadcaster studio cartridge for use by the Japanese national broadcaster in the 50s or 60s. AT themselves have designed many subsequent cartridge series', presumably advancing the art, yet always kept the AT33 on their list. Perhaps it really is very special, or maybe it's that Japanese reverence for classic designs or legendary products.

cheers

 

[mike70]

i have the microline / boron 33 series version, and it's fantastic ... price / performance still much better in the MC world.
But, let me say, i'm in love with the vm95ml cartridge.

180 USD? OMG, hard to believe. 99% of people listening to vinyl doesn't need anything else.

 

[Robin L]

I’ve honestly never noticed wow and flutter on my at-lp120 so I will be shocked if I notice anything on the at-lp8x.

I've heard wow 'n' flutter on every single record player I've heard, thanks to defects baked into the LP themselves and high sensitivity to pitch. And I have owned far too many turntables. The amount of w & f depends on multiple factors but the biggest factor is the record itself: slightly warped records will cause more wow and flutter on some turntables than others. I think that mostly has to do with how synergistic the arm/cartridge combo is. And the positioning and location of the 'table are also determining factors as is the genre of music being played. The best luck I ever had was a Technics SL D2 with a Shure 44-7 tracking at 2.5 grams on top of a stack of stone tiles. It often was on top of a heavy rolling roadie rack but usually in the garage where you would find it on top of a very heavily constructed tool cabinet on a stack of stone tiles separated by bits of window putty. I used that combination for my side hustle of transferring LPs to CDs at a fixed rate per disc. There was little money in it, but I managed to keep my hand in, fiddling around with LPs and turntables, tweaking my little heart out. I frequently went to a local record store with an ultrasonic record cleaning service, $1 a disc. The improvement was worth the cost. And as far as I can tell, this combo took me to the limit of wow and flutter, and that wasn't enough for me.

The less dependable Strathclyde 305-m/SME III/Shure 97 xe on that stack of tiles. The stabilizer brush helped with warps but also added an additional touch of pre/post echo:

 

[goat76]

That cartridge has always bemused me. Several of my audio buddies have chosen and lived with AT33 variants, yet the design is ancient. IIRC it was conceived as a broadcaster studio cartridge for use by the Japanese national broadcaster in the 50s or 60s. AT themselves have designed many subsequent cartridge series', presumably advancing the art, yet always kept the AT33 on their list. Perhaps it really is very special, or maybe it's that Japanese reverence for classic designs or legendary products.

cheers

Isn’t everything about vinyl playback ancient?

I just went for the cartridge that sounded the best to me after listening to several direct recorded comparisons between different cartridges on YouTube. My goal with getting a turntable was hardly about objectivity, it was mostly out of curiosity why so many people like playing records, so I just let my subjectivity spinn in full throttle for this one.

But don’t worry. For digital playback and for the rest of my system, the goal is an objective neutral performance, and that is already achieved.

 

[mike70]

Isn’t everything about vinyl playback ancient?

I just went for the cartridge that sounded the best to me after listening to several direct recorded comparisons between different cartridges on YouTube. My goal with getting a turntable was hardly about objectivity, it was mostly out of curiosity why so many people like playing records, so I just let my subjectivity spinn in full throttle for this one.

But don’t worry. For digital playback and for the rest of my system, the goal is an objective neutral performance, and that is already achieved.

... and i think that's why we use the format ... not because "is better", but because we like it.
human beans have brains ... and heart, that's all.

i use digital and vinyl, i use 80% digital reproduction but when i want to listen to "that record" on vinyl ... i do ... even for many people is some kind of crazy. I don't care, obviously, my happiness goes above that.

 

[Cote Dazur]

My goal with getting a turntable was hardly about objectivity

Sounds reasonable, since when we listen to anything, 99% of the time, we are subjective, if we want it or not, if you know what you are listening to, you are listening subjectively. We are justifying our bias as a hobby.
For the other 1% of the time, even if we hear a difference, it is then so hard to judge it.
The whole process of playing records triggers the enjoyment, for those who find it pleasurable, or not, if you somehow came to not liking it (anymore).
In the past I could hear so much differences in everything, even many days apart, that is until I tried to listen without knowing, then I suddenly became immune to differences that use to be so obvious to me.
These days, I enjoy music on many different systems, using many different sources, not wondering so much if it could sound better or different.
Most days I play records and I feel good, fortunate to have time to enjoy music from so many different genre and artists.
Yesterday, it was that album.

 

[Sal1950]

I've heard wow 'n' flutter on every single record player I've heard, thanks to defects baked into the LP themselves and high sensitivity to pitch. And I have owned far too many turntables. The amount of w & f depends on multiple factors but the biggest factor is the record itself: slightly warped records will cause more wow and flutter on some turntables than others. I think that mostly has to do with how synergistic the arm/cartridge combo is.

Good post Robin, I was going to bring it up but, LOL
Many modern and some old tables can offer reasonably good W & F numbers, the main serious problems are in the ancient mechanical design of the LP it self.
Finding records that are perfectly flat with "centered" center holes is a dice roll itself, maybe half decent if you spend the big money for new boutique 180 g pressings, maybe. Also you need to pay close attention to the proper mating of needle compliance and tone arm mass, etc. to minimize the ever present issues. But chasing high-fidelity from a low-fidelity medium is the just silly. Enjoy playing your records for whatever reasons that make you smile, but vinyl hasn't been a relevant player in SOTA high-fidelity for 6 decades +.

 

[MatrixS2000]

I rather listen to a little W&F than a smashed digital version.