The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

[mike70]

With properly care (records and stylus) you won't listen to any degrade on a lifetime.

Use dirty conicals with 3 grams VTF on a dusty record and the story changes badly.

 

[Newman]

What I noticed is that more of my CD's than my LP's present defects.
Almost all my LP's, play without issues, but many CD's have tracks not playing, the aluminum is decaying, so no cleaning will fix that. So much for CD being more resilient than LP's..

FWIW the Library of Congress did an archival study in the 1980s for both CD and LP, and found that LPs will last about a century if treated correctly. 776 years was their mean life expectancy for CDs at average room temperatures and humidities, or 17 times longer than that if treated correctly ie stored in conditions equivalent to their standard storage vaults.

So, if your CDs are commercial releases (and not rips onto CD-ROMs that use a different technology) then either you are incredibly unlucky, or had a supplier who was seriously abusing their CDs in storage or transport.

But the message to the average CD buyer is that he should be more concerned about longevity of his LPs than his CDs, and more concerned about this own longevity than either!

cheers

 

[Soniclife]

To me it is just an other fairy tale from “audiophiles”, records get dirty but they do not degrade from playing if your TT is not badly set up.
And if you handle them well, you clean them once and you are done.
One thing that also help are anti static sleeve to keep the static at bay, anyone else share my opinion on anti static sleeve?
View attachment 520835

I also use those sleeves, they seem to work for me. There is an art to getting the record back into them. I've also never noticed any real degradation from playing, I don't worry about it.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

At first, I had this idea that I should probably have to digitize all my vinyl records while they are still new, before the sound degrades by playing them too many times, but will the records really degrade noticeably? Have you noticed that over time with your records, or is that mostly a thing some "audiophiles" are overly concerned about?

I used to set-up turntables for studio work using test LPs. The very highest sine wave frequencies (e.g. 10kHz) on these LPs began to drop off after a few plays. Sine waves are obviously hard to track and play, therefore real music LPs may last for many more plays.

So, record wear is definitely a real thing, especially at higher frequencies. But, most of us can't hear these frequencies. More importantly, most of what's played back from an LP in the 10kHz and higher frequencies is noise and resonance, so not really important.

 

[DSJR]

FWIW the Library of Congress did an archival study in the 1980s for both CD and LP, and found that LPs will last about a century if treated correctly. 776 years was their mean life expectancy for CDs at average room temperatures and humidities, or 17 times longer than that if treated correctly ie stored in conditions equivalent to their standard storage vaults.

So, if your CDs are commercial releases (and not rips onto CD-ROMs that use a different technology) then either you are incredibly unlucky, or had a supplier who was seriously abusing their CDs in storage or transport.

But the message to the average CD buyer is that he should be more concerned about longevity of his LPs than his CDs, and more concerned about this own longevity than either!

cheers

'Laser Rot' on some early commercial CDs is very much a real thing sadly. One or two early CDs I have, went 'bronze' over a few years in their jewel cases, but they still play alright. A couple I'd bought of early Ozric Tentacles albums on first CD issue, went off badly around the edges and one became unplayable. The re-press was done somewhere else from a different mastering I believe and when I thought I could hear it, the absolute phase seemed reversed. These discs are fine still, thirty years on.

 

[Robin L]

'Laser Rot' on some early commercial CDs is very much a real thing sadly. One or two early CDs I have, went 'bronze' over a few years in their jewel cases, but they still play alright. A couple I'd bought of early Ozric Tentacles albums on first CD issue, went off badly around the edges and one became unplayable. The re-press was done somewhere else from a different mastering I believe and when I thought I could hear it, the absolute phase seemed reversed. These discs are fine still, thirty years on.

I remember finding the Hannover Band Nimbus CDs of Beethoven's symphonies in a used CD bin, sad to find them all bronzed out.

 

[DSJR]

I remember finding the Hannover Band Nimbus CDs of Beethoven's symphonies in a used CD bin, sad to find them all bronzed out.

Nimbus made too... Mind you, I have a Polydor CD of Level 42's music and it's not bright silver any more, but it did polay properly last I spun it.

 

[somebodyelse]

One or two early CDs I have, went 'bronze' over a few years in their jewel cases, but they still play alright.

Almost certainly from the PDO Blackburn plant which was retooled from laserdiscs and used silver instead of aluminium. IIRC there was an Italian plant with the same problem, but less output.

 

[MattHooper]

Oh no.

I’ve started buying records again.

I say “oh no” because I don’t have income I used to have so I have to be careful here. Very easy to get sucked into spending lots of money.


But since I’m just coming back from a very long struggle with tinnitus in which I hadn’t listened to my audio system for a very long time let alone bought a record, being back at the stage were I am buying records again is extremely joyful.

In getting my ears used to listening to music again I’ve been doing a lot of streaming quietly through my system. Enjoying it, of course. And I could simply listen to the YouTube rips of many of the rare records I’m interested in. But it’s just not the same.
If I play it that way, I will tend to just have it going in the background while I’m doing something else.

For me, there’s just nothing like a record.
The excitement I had in tracking down a specific rare record I was interested in, making the purchase on Discogs… which leads to the anticipation of the record showing up at my door… can’t wait to hold it in my hands, get it all cleaned up, throw it on the turntable, lower the needle, and sit back and just luxuriate. And it typically sounds wonderful!

Back to my favourite way of listening to music!

But I’m going to have to practice self-control in not going too crazy buying again.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Oh no.

I’ve started buying records again.

I say “oh no” because I don’t have income I used to have so I have to be careful here. Very easy to get sucked into spending lots of money.


But since I’m just coming back from a very long struggle with tinnitus in which I hadn’t listened to my audio system for a very long time let alone bought a record, being back at the stage were I am buying records again is extremely joyful.

In getting my ears used to listening to music again I’ve been doing a lot of streaming quietly through my system. Enjoying it, of course. And I could simply listen to the YouTube rips of many of the rare records I’m interested in. But it’s just not the same.
If I play it that way, I will tend to just have it going in the background while I’m doing something else.

For me, there’s just nothing like a record.
The excitement I had in tracking down a specific rare record I was interested in, making the purchase on Discogs… which leads to the anticipation of the record showing up at my door… can’t wait to hold it in my hands, get it all cleaned up, throw it on the turntable, lower the needle, and sit back and just luxuriate. Back to my favourite way of listening to music!

But I’m going to have to practice self-control in not going too crazy buying again.

You can’t leave it there… what was the record?

 

[MattHooper]

You can’t leave it there… what was the record?

The two records I just bought are almost too embarrassing to mention ;-)

It’s part of the niche Library Music genre I’ve mentioned earlier that I enjoy (much of which is not available on CD or streaming),

So for instance, I have a fondness for 70s and into early 80s synthesizer sounds, the warm analogue feel, and a lot of these album albums use those synths.

I always try and track down the record and cover that are in the best condition I can find.
So I’m willing to pay a bit more for Near Mint.

So for instance, here is a track from the record that I just purchased. It’s a library record called T.V. Adventure.

More from this genre:

(my friend has a daughter who is currently studying biology in university and says she’s discovered this album and loves to listen to it while doing her work)

 

[Johnkeizer]

The biggest improvement to my vinyl replay once out of the bargain basement turntable was this vacuum record cleaner I was given 20 years ago.

 

[Bland_username42069]

The two records I just bought are almost too embarrassing to mention ;-)

It’s part of the niche Library Music genre I’ve mentioned earlier that I enjoy (much of which is not available on CD or streaming),

So for instance, I have a fondness for 70s and into early 80s synthesizer sounds, the warm analogue feel, and a lot of these album albums use those synths.

I always try and track down the record and cover that are in the best condition I can find.
So I’m willing to pay a bit more for Near Mint.

So for instance, here is a track from the record that I just purchased. It’s a library record called T.V. Adventure.

More from this genre:

(my friend has a daughter who is currently studying biology in university and says she’s discovered this album and loves to listen to it while doing her work)

I used to be part of a record collectors forum. Library music was really popular genre in that group - there was always a quest for certain Italian albums especially alongside the obvious ones like KPM etc.

 

[MattHooper]

I used to be part of a record collectors forum. Library music was really popular genre in that group - there was always a quest for certain Italian albums especially alongside the obvious ones like KPM etc.

Cool!

Yeah I love Italian library - Piero Umiliani being an obvious favourite.

I’m getting a bit sucked back into French and German stuff. It’s such a massive rabbit hole.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Cool!

Yeah I love Italian library - Piero Umiliani being an obvious favourite.

I’m getting a bit sucked back into French and German stuff. It’s such a massive rabbit hole.

It’s a fascinating area of music and one where you do actually need a record player to go down the rabbit hole properly.

You’re in now the hole so there’s no turning back. Plantasia sounds a top notch album with a very interesting concept - like you I love that kind of synth sound.

 

[goat76]

I have come to the conclusion that the feet on my Technics 1200GR aren't sufficient enough to dampen vibrations. When the needle is playing a silent part on a record, and I knock very slightly on the furniture underneath the turntable, it can easily be heard through the loudspeakers.

I have bought damping feet that I place underneath the existing feet. This works great and I can no longer hear any problems when knocking on the furniture, but the new problem is that the turntable doesn't stand sturdy enough with these extra feet directly under the existing feet. So now I'm looking for something like a surface that I can place between the existing feet and the dampening feet, something like a piece of thick glass or something made of wood.

What type of material do you think will work best, some dense wooden material, or a thick sheet of glass?

 

[Palmer]

I have come to the conclusion that the feet on my Technics 1200GR aren't sufficient enough to dampen vibrations. When the needle is playing a silent part on a record, and I knock very slightly on the furniture underneath the turntable, it can easily be heard through the loudspeakers.

I have bought damping feet that I place underneath the existing feet. This works great and I can no longer hear any problems when knocking on the furniture, but the new problem is that the turntable doesn't stand sturdy enough with these extra feet directly under the existing feet. So now I'm looking for something like a surface that I can place between the existing feet and the dampening feet, something like a piece of thick glass or something made of wood.

What type of material do you think will work best, some dense wooden material, or a thick sheet of glass?

That's a bit of a rabbit hole, without measurements, pun intended - let's say you have sort of the perfect damping the way it is now, adding another layer means adding weight, and, depending on the material used, another source.
I'd remove the original feet, sort of tricky - and rest the table just on the damping feet. There's someone selling a nifty jig to rest the table upside down, on eBay - I have to see if I can locate that. And it wasn't expensive.

Cheers

Edit:

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[goat76]

That's a bit of a rabbit hole, without measurements, pun intended - let's say you have sort of the perfect damping the way it is now, adding another layer means adding weight, and, depending on the material used, another source.
I'd remove the original feet, sort of tricky - and rest the table just on the damping feet. There's someone selling a nifty jig to rest the table upside down, on eBay - I have to see if I can locate that. And it wasn't expensive.

I must check if the original feet are removable. Otherwise, the new damping feet are good for another 0.5 kg.

Edit: I still need the original feet to be able to level the turntable. I almost forgot about that.

 

[Soniclife]

I have come to the conclusion that the feet on my Technics 1200GR aren't sufficient enough to dampen vibrations. When the needle is playing a silent part on a record, and I knock very slightly on the furniture underneath the turntable, it can easily be heard through the loudspeakers.

I have bought damping feet that I place underneath the existing feet. This works great and I can no longer hear any problems when knocking on the furniture, but the new problem is that the turntable doesn't stand sturdy enough with these extra feet directly under the existing feet. So now I'm looking for something like a surface that I can place between the existing feet and the dampening feet, something like a piece of thick glass or something made of wood.

What type of material do you think will work best, some dense wooden material, or a thick sheet of glass?

Your concern is sound from the speakers is getting into the turntable to give low level feedback or reverb? If so I'd test with by recording with the speakers of, and with them on before going further.

 

[goat76]

Your concern is sound from the speakers is getting into the turntable to give low level feedback or reverb? If so I'd test with by recording with the speakers of, and with them on before going further.

When playing loud, I can easily feel strong vibrations in my feet through the floor. I would assume those vibrations will also affect the turntable, but that is only based on how much it is affected by my very light knocking on the surface underneath the player.

All this may be totally unnecessary, but it's fun to optimize things.