The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

[goat76]

Six of one, half dozen of the other.
You'll never remove the bad without touching the good a bit.
Or just live with the issues.
Or just go digital and leave all that behind you.

As I mentioned, I have no problem with minor cracks and pops in the vinyl playback. I even find those artifacts a bit charming.

I was an early adopter of ripping my whole CD collection. I left the physical media behind me a long time ago, well, until last summer, when I, out of pure curiosity, bought a turntable. Most of my listening is still digital, and I love the pure sound it provides, but I was a little surprised that I liked the sound of vinyl playback as much as I do. I have no problem listening to more than one format.

 

[goat76]

How have you determined that? Most modern tool chains facilitate the ability to listen to what was removed. At moderate settings I find most don't touch anything audible at all.

In a DAW, it's easy to A/B things by activating or deactivating the plugins. I don't know how many hours I have spent trying to adjust the noise reduction programs, not to take away any of the finer details that I want to leave untouched, but I have never been fully satisfied with the result. I also have a really great standalone program (iZotope RX9) with all sorts of tools for editing sound objects, but I have still not managed to have a truly transparent result. I don't see how any program with a preset setting would work as a universal, fully transparent removal tool in real time, as the nature and different levels of problems from record to record would likely need to be set on an individual basis.

 

[JP]

it's easy to A/B things by activating or deactivating the plugins.

That's not what I said. Even RX has the ability to "output clicks only", which means the difference signal. Far easier to ascertain what's happening by listening to that than by trying to subjectively compare sighted As and Bs.

 

[DSJR]

All this talk of Rumours being a 'high fidelity' recording? The music is legendary and an absolute given and 'Dreams' still makes me all gooey as does 'Sarah' from the follow-up (oooh Stevie!), but the 'sound' I never found that wonderful I have to say, even when I had a better sound rig than I have now...

We were early adopters of 'carbon fibre' record brushes once the shedding situation was settled very early on. A typical stylus can do a fair job of general groove cleaning, but my demon noisy DMM original copy of 'Colour of Spring' by Talk Talk is going to need a full wet-n-dry job to clear it I think (my rarely played home copy - we used it to death at work - was mint and silent I remember). I have a silent new pressing of it but as the CD is fine, I'll keep it as mint as I can and not play it. Somewhere, I have a Discwasher record 'brush' with chunky wooden 'handle' to go with the stylus cleaner brush I use, but as with a lot of stuff including a boxed Grace 707 tonearm I last saw ten years back, I'm damned if I can find it (I'm sure I didn't sell it too).

 

[goat76]

That's not what I said. Even RX has the ability to "output clicks only", which means the difference signal. Far easier to ascertain what's happening by listening to that than by trying to subjectively compare sighted As and Bs.

Yes, many programs have that functionality to only listen for what is removed, and you are probably correct when you say that they can be fairly transparent if you fiddle with the settings. Such a program can probably work if the goal is to digitize a vinyl record, but have you ever found a program that you can set and forget in a real-time application, as I think is what most people here want with the use of Waxwing or similar gear?

 

[goat76]

Today, I have been browsing Amazon for a simple manual vinyl cleaning kit, as I think I will start there. Do any of you have a suggestion on such a kit that you think is good?

 

[JP]

Yes, many programs have that functionality to only listen for what is removed, and you are probably correct when you say that they can be fairly transparent if you fiddle with the settings. Such a program can probably work if the goal is to digitize a vinyl record, but have you ever found a program that you can set and forget in a real-time application, as I think is what most people here want with the use of Waxwing or similar gear?

ClickRepair RT, sadly NLA. I've not searched broadly as it's not a use case I have. I'd rather lay it back and listen to the digital.

 

[Bland_username42069]

ClickRepair RT, sadly NLA. I've not searched broadly as it's not a use case I have. I'd rather lay it back and listen to the digital.

It’s supposedly been co-opted in Sugar Cube now

 

[Bob from Florida]

Today, I have been browsing Amazon for a simple manual vinyl cleaning kit, as I think I will start there. Do any of you have a suggestion on such a kit that you think is good?

If I were buying a new one, I would seriously consider the below.

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-VC-E2-Record-Cleaning-Machine/dp/B0DMV1YQSF/ref=mp_s_a_1_19?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.6aEH_Zy7tBmHAUTyiSiy8VhPi7qdvOJxXXJr0meQB6bsiDpgI8YOaxYl6NPWqgblKUP1yqSAtT24jEiEFR3f4jAMkMc2poJTVGqpzR_lGtvp1bx8g946usVljofr5KQ3SKYOLmkGvKSFbzQ8981hPRyZxzJ8uL1peM28pwEcDsdnxq6Cxc1GwhJsrMkrt-kPkUHm2YOjVsk7JWcQMd0ttw.GFYb_IVa8Wn9WT7YWMhNMqE9uimA_HRReFwd0lA9CZI&dib_tag=se&keywords=record+cleaning+machine&qid=1774012429&sr=8-19&xpid=MhmmESl6p_xho

For many years, I used a Nitty Gritty that was as basic as possible. You put fluid on top, flipped it over - vacuum device faced up, turned on vacuum and spun by hand. Then a friend gifted me an expensive Clearaudio machine that pumps the fluid onto both sides and then vacuums both sides simultaneously. I compared the results of each machine - identical cleaning as far as I could tell. No controls as different records were tested before and after cleaning. I use the Clearaudio because it is less work with the homemade cleaning solution. The Project is reasonable priced and functionally splits the difference between my Nitty Gritty and the Clearaudio. No experience with ultrasonic cleaners - so no suggestions.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Six of one, half dozen of the other.
You'll never remove the bad without touching the good a bit.
Or just live with the issues.
Or just go digital and leave all that behind you.

You keep droning on about this ad infinitum despite being told repeatedly

If I want to listen to this or this then what?

 

[aagstn]

All this talk of Rumours being a 'high fidelity' recording? The music is legendary and an absolute given and 'Dreams' still makes me all gooey as does 'Sarah' from the follow-up (oooh Stevie!), but the 'sound' I never found that wonderful I have to say, even when I had a better sound rig than I have now...

Rumours was recorded at the legendary Sound City and that place was all analog and old fashioned even by 1970s standards. Things were done the old way there for better or worse. Some people love it, but albums recorded there can lack the polish of more advanced studios. Whether that is a bad or good thing really depends on the listener.

 

[goat76]

If I were buying a new one, I would seriously consider the below.

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-VC-E2-Record-Cleaning-Machine/dp/B0DMV1YQSF/ref=mp_s_a_1_19?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.6aEH_Zy7tBmHAUTyiSiy8VhPi7qdvOJxXXJr0meQB6bsiDpgI8YOaxYl6NPWqgblKUP1yqSAtT24jEiEFR3f4jAMkMc2poJTVGqpzR_lGtvp1bx8g946usVljofr5KQ3SKYOLmkGvKSFbzQ8981hPRyZxzJ8uL1peM28pwEcDsdnxq6Cxc1GwhJsrMkrt-kPkUHm2YOjVsk7JWcQMd0ttw.GFYb_IVa8Wn9WT7YWMhNMqE9uimA_HRReFwd0lA9CZI&dib_tag=se&keywords=record+cleaning+machine&qid=1774012429&sr=8-19&xpid=MhmmESl6p_xho

For many years, I used a Nitty Gritty that was as basic as possible. You put fluid on top, flipped it over - vacuum device faced up, turned on vacuum and spun by hand. Then a friend gifted me an expensive Clearaudio machine that pumps the fluid onto both sides and then vacuums both sides simultaneously. I compared the results of each machine - identical cleaning as far as I could tell. No controls as different records were tested before and after cleaning. I use the Clearaudio because it is less work with the homemade cleaning solution. The Project is reasonable priced and functionally splits the difference between my Nitty Gritty and the Clearaudio. No experience with ultrasonic cleaners - so no suggestions.

I will probably end up with a machine like that or a HumminGuru (which are broadly available where I live), but I think I will first try manual cleaning and thinking about some of the manual cleaning kits available on Amazon. You know, one of those simple kits containing a brush, some cleaning fluid, and a few other items, and I wonder if someone here has experience with those.

Maybe something like this:

...Or something like this:

 

[Bob from Florida]

I will probably end up with a machine like that or a HumminGuru (which are broadly available where I live), but I think I will first try manual cleaning and thinking about some of the manual cleaning kits available on Amazon. You know, one of those simple kits containing a brush, some cleaning fluid, and a few other items, and I wonder if someone here has experience with those.

Maybe something like this:
View attachment 519067


...Or something like this:
View attachment 519068

I only use a carbon fiber brush on a previously vacuum cleaned album. If you put any liquid on the album without vacuuming it off, you may get some dirt out with the liquid brush, but the rest just gets redistributed.

 

[mike70]

I only use a carbon fiber brush on a previously vacuum cleaned album. If you put any liquid on the album without vacuuming it off, you may get some dirt out with the liquid brush, but the rest just gets redistributed.

I agree ... i use a manual cleaning method, but the last step is always a good rinse with distilled water.

 

[Cote Dazur]

what are people using for a record brush?

 

[EJ3]

I will probably end up with a machine like that or a HumminGuru (which are broadly available where I live), but I think I will first try manual cleaning and thinking about some of the manual cleaning kits available on Amazon. You know, one of those simple kits containing a brush, some cleaning fluid, and a few other items, and I wonder if someone here has experience with those.

I like this manual cleaning solution (if manual is the way to go [for me, it is a stopgap, until I can afford better]).

 

[DSJR]

I've used basically this for forty years now (mine are Path Group labelled in a gold-handle colour, but basically identical) and I also have a non-shedding two-piece Decca equivalent.

 

[Robin L]

I will probably end up with a machine like that or a HumminGuru (which are broadly available where I live), but I think I will first try manual cleaning and thinking about some of the manual cleaning kits available on Amazon. You know, one of those simple kits containing a brush, some cleaning fluid, and a few other items, and I wonder if someone here has experience with those.

Maybe something like this:
View attachment 519067


...Or something like this:
View attachment 519068

I have used record brushes like these—the original Discwasher specifically—and found that these brushes would transmit some of the dirt/grease from a dirty record to a clean one. I've had better luck with vacuum cleaners, used a VPI 16 for about 30 years, but if one has a decent technique the results are nearly as good as vacuuming when one cleans LPs in the sink. One has to avoid label damage and use soft, clean towels and other cleaning implements. I had good luck with new sponges and a drop or two of Dawn to a gallon of liquid, rinse with tap water.

 

[Robin L]

I used one for decades, same design but labeled for Berkeley's db audio, a fine old audio boutique with some decidedly high-end/high priced gear. But not a snake oil shop. They had a Keith Monk's record cleaning machine, one could use it for a $1 a disc, you also got plastic record sleeves, also emblazoned with db audio's logo.

 

[MattHooper]

I used one for decades, same design but labeled for Berkeley's db audio, a fine old audio boutique with some decidedly high-end/high priced gear. But not a snake oil shop. They had a Keith Monk's record cleaning machine, one could use it for a $1 a disc, you also got plastic record sleeves, also emblazoned with db audio's logo.

I seem to remember that at one point you were dealing with a lot of records that weren’t necessarily your own - associated with the radio station or something? Or archive activity? Am I remembering wrong?
Or were you using the rec cleaning machine, etc. for your own records?