The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

[Sal1950]

What makes it technically-wise less high fidelity, and what makes it sound more or less high fidelity, isn't necessarily related things.

Yes they are directly linked, this is where you are mistaken.
I get that some added distortion may make the sound more pleasing to you, but it never makes the sound a more accurate representation of what the mic's heard or the artist & recording engineer attempted to present to their audience.

This is a good point and I would ask folks to refrain from going down the path of “what format is superior”. Current recording and playback technology is provably better than vinyl, there is no doubt that is the case.

Bob this is not really a CD vs Vinyl debate but simply a discussion on the roots and goals of what's High Fidelity.
Elsewhere you will find places where folks spend a fortune on SET amps and huge horn speakers from the 1940s that create large amounts of distortion and a very non-linear frequency response, then sit back and say "doesn't it sound glorious"? Well it may to them, but it sounds nothing like what the folks in the studio heard or hoped you would enjoy.
That's the "sounds good to me" crowd you find at the other subjective sites and magazines. Not what we do here.

There are a ton of good reasons why vinyl brings many people pleasure and that's great. But it's distortion isn't a point that should be praised as a positive. Better to discuss things like needle alignment and shape that need to be optimized, preamps with accurate RIAA EQ, low noise and distortion used, proper cartridge loading, etc, etc to reduce it as much as possible are points to cover here. Work to improve the mediums weaknesses not praise them.

 

[goat76]

Yes they are directly linked, this is where you are mistaken.
I get that some added distortion may make the sound more pleasing to you, but it never makes the sound a more accurate representation of what the mic's heard or the artist & recording engineer attempted to present to their audience.

You have a conversation with yourself here. I said right from the start that vinyl adds something to the sound. That means that I fully well know that that something isn’t in the recording.

 

[somebodyelse]

Bob this is not really a CD vs Vinyl debate but simply a discussion on the roots and goals of what's High Fidelity.

...and which isn't the topic of this thread. Please take it to one of the threads where that IS the topic.

 

[Newman]

...and which isn't the topic of this thread. Please take it to one of the threads where that IS the topic.

Perhaps better for you to take that request to the person who started it. And then continued it. "vinyl sounds more organic" - jeepers, are we supposed to look the other way while adherents try to maintain their cognitive dissonance by insisting that nobody here on ASR claims that vinyl sounds better, then do exactly that. Over, and over, and over.

I thought Bob @Bob from Florida wanted this thread to discuss ways to maximise the technical merit we can get from our vinyl without over-reaching to insist it sounds better than digital, which is bound to attract well-warranted pushback.

Don't blame the pushback.

Bob raised the topic of whether demagnetisation of the cartridge can measurably improve the signal out of a cartridge - great topic.

Bob raised the topic of DSP (Waxwing) to improve vinyl performance - great topic.

Let's stick to making vinyl sound its best, but do it in a 'more ASR' way by avoiding 'I swear I heard it' anecdotes that lean into magical properties and tired/boring claims that 'worse sounds better', and preferring valid evidence that generally looks like a measurement or a controlled listening test.

cheers

 

[goat76]

Let's stick to making vinyl sound its best, but do it in a 'more ASR' way by avoiding 'I swear I heard it' anecdotes that lean into magical properties and tired/boring claims that 'worse sounds better', and preferring valid evidence that generally looks like a measurement or a controlled listening test.

What exactly are "magic properties" in me saying vinyl playback is adding harmonic distortion? Isn't distortion a real thing now, according to you?

 

[Sal1950]

Perhaps better for you to take that request to the person who started it. And then continued it. "vinyl sounds more organic" - jeepers, are we supposed to look the other way while adherents try to maintain their cognitive dissonance by insisting that nobody here on ASR claims that vinyl sounds better, then do exactly that. Over, and over, and over.

Amen Newman, This is ASR, Thank You

 

[Sal1950]

You know what, there is a lot of deliberately added distortion to high fidelity recordings. Distortion is added to bring out details, get things to pop out in a mix, and sometimes to add warmth to certain elements or maybe to the full mix. Just a little touch of added harmonic distortion by the playback system will not necessarily make it sound less high-fidelity; it can even enhance the overall experience, making it sound even more lifelike.

There is a ton of "distortion" added by guitar amps, etc; that is the artist intent in the creation of his music.
If possible, a High Fidelity system should add ZERO distortion of it's own during playback, that's what High Fidelity means. Do I have to add the Wiki's definition again?
Add distortion if you like it, but that's no longer accurate to the source. What part of that do you still not understand?
My apologies Bob, I'm done trying to help this guy.

 

[goat76]

Thank you for the teaching, @Sal1950. I have learned so much new stuff from you today that I had no idea about. And now I'm gonna go read up on why distortion has "magic properties", thanks to the information @Newman gave me.

Or we can stop pretending that we even had the discussion you believe we had, as I neither said that vinyl has any "magic properties", nor did I ever say that vinyl is technically more high fidelity than what a pure digital playback will give us. I only said that vinyl playback adds something, and that I think that something is "added harmonic distortion by the vinyl playback system, which will not necessarily make it sound less high-fidelity". It is, of course, technically less high-fidelity, if that still didn't get through to you.

"Kicking in open doors" is what is happening here. Have a good day!

 

[Cote Dazur]

Plus when you get to know the shop owner and the shop is cool - “oh we have got this in”, “if you like this then check this out”, discounts at the till, “this band are playing here” etc etc

Thank you for this, it sent me back in the early part of the 70,s. There was that place where we, a good friend and I, would go, at least once a week to buy records, only new one back then. The guy there was well connected to what was hot and that we could like. Found out that way about EW&F, Supertramp. There was a cabin where we could listen, I feel lucky to start my musical journey in those times. Today’s music hobby is very different, still being able to hunt for LP’s in 2026, with more choice than 10 years ago , with interest in LP’s growing strong with no sign of slowing down is such a blessing. Some people don’t appreciate it, some even get annoyed, but for many the gift of music from LP is very much appreciated.
If you have a chance, hunt for the Vol1 album from Angine de poitrine, produced in 2024, it is very entertaining music.

 

[aagstn]

If you have a chance, hunt for the Vol1 album from Angine de poitrine, produced in 2024, it is very entertaining music.

Love this suggestion. Absolutely amazing performances from this duo. Don't know much about who they are other than being from Quebec. The music is outstanding and seeing them perform it live is an experience.

 

[Soniclife]

Interesting, need to listen properly in the future.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Interesting, need to listen properly in the future.

Dead animals room treatments!

 

[Soniclife]

Dead animals room treatments!

Sufficient to distract from comments on the TT, which I was expecting in this thread

 

[DSJR]

Interesting, need to listen properly in the future.

L78 deck - bloomin' good they were if understood properly and modern cartridges are fine in that massy tonearm once the V Blocks are replaced... and worthy of more than an AT95E as well (auto stop was cool as well but the 'phools didn't like it). All but impossible to re-wire internally sadly, but aftermarket lower mass arm tube assemblies can be got if you know where to look...

Oil get me coat - sorry for the intrusion - I like the music however

 

[Sal1950]

Dead animals room treatments!

I like it, how about some wall mounted wild game heads.
Considering todays attitudes, etc; I bet there's a bunch on the used market.
Wish I had the wall room here.

 

[daide]

Question about the vinyl playback, if I want to have something hardware to be able to remove in real time click and pops, something to leave it next to the amp, that is not the expensive Sugarcube, the only options available are the Waxwing or running the Clickrepair RT?

 

[Thomas_A]

Question about the vinyl playback, if I want to have something hardware to be able to remove in real time click and pops, something to leave it next to the amp, that is not the expensive Sugarcube, the only options available are the Waxwing or running the Clickrepair RT?

Seems so. There is room for more.

 

[mike70]

My formula is very simple: good cleaning. If cleaning doesn't help, buy another copy in better shape.

I don't suffer with disturbing clicks and pop with vinyl, you don't need to.

 

[Cote Dazur]

click and pops

I will not presume from your level of experience with playing LP’s.
But, assuming you do not have a lot, if any, click and pops are not the big issue some makes it to be, for some, it is not an issue at all.
Cleaning LP’s makes it a non issue for me. Using a Vacuum LP cleaner for the last 30 years made it disappear.
Nitty Gritty

 

[Mart68]

I will not presume from your level of experience with playing LP’s.
But, assuming you do not have a lot, if any, click and pops are not the big issue some makes it to be, for some, it is not an issue at all.
Cleaning LP’s makes it a non issue for me. Using a Vacuum LP cleaner for the last 30 years made it disappear.
Nitty Gritty

I never really considered it an issue. My records were all cleaned on a wet vacuum machine. Okay, that does not fix scratches but they didn't bother me until I got a CD player in about 1996 and then, gradually, as I did more of my listening to CD, I started to have a problem with the clicks and pops on vinyl.

I do have many records that are pretty much blemish free though.