The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

[The_Fall]

That's only possible if you live where you can receive a stream. I prefer living where you cannot.
And listening to what is available on streaming at friends homes, the goodness of which selection of something is hit & miss and you have no choice for the better cut. Each to their own, I guess.

Physical media is a plus for me as well.

 

[Sal1950]

Today, that cartoon also apply for CD players... there's much more convenience and money savings with streaming services.

No at all, used CD players, including those that will play DVD and BluRay discs are available for next to nothing and will provide you the exact same beautiful sound quality you get from a brand new one. The same goes for the CD's, they have to be extremely damaged not to play back in a bit perfect manner.
The exact opposite is true about vinyl. Decent tables and needles are very expensive, used vinyl is mostly noisy junk, finding ones in decent condition is like panning for gold.

 

[EJ3]

No at all, used CD players, including those that will play DVD and BluRay discs are available for next to nothing and will provide you the exact same beautiful sound quality you get from a brand new one. The same goes for the CD's, they have to be extremely damaged not to play back in a bit perfect manner.
The exact opposite is true about vinyl. Decent tables and needles are very expensive, used vinyl is mostly noisy junk, finding ones in decent condition is like panning for gold.

And new vinyl is IFFY, too (I'll say that, even as a vinyl lover0.
But I have mine, in great condition, by having collected it over the years and having had (and do have) great turntables that track very well at 1-1.25 grams.
Particularly like my Linear Technics SL-M3 but my (mother's) DUAL 1229 does pretty well, also.
Of course, I have about as many CD's as albums and therefore a few CD Players (and an oppo 205 UDP).
With about 1200 (albums + CD's), I'm not really looking for new stuff. Although, if I hear something interesting, I may get it.
If it's available on CD, LP, cassette or reel to reel.
I have some downloads but they were mostly for my laptop (which can play CD's, DVD's, Blue Ray's & 4K out of it's HDMI port) when I was traveling the oceans.

 

[Sal1950]

And new vinyl is IFFY, too (I'll say that, even as a vinyl lover0.

Yep, it's always a crap shoot with vinyl.
I sold off all my vinyl and the playback gear 2 decades + ago, Just too big a PITA to deal with. Used the proceeds to upgrade my multichannel rig, something vinyls never been able to do in any decent fashion.

 

[EJ3]

Yep, it's always a crap shoot with vinyl.
I sold off all my vinyl and the playback gear 2 decades + ago, Just too big a PITA to deal with. Used the proceeds to upgrade my multichannel rig, something vinyls never been able to do in any decent fashion.

Kept mine but have stuff from my mother and grandmother (Appalachian, Austrian folk music, Gullah and other stuff that is virtually unobtanium in any format these days).
For me, the highest fidelity is the Cd's & perhaps some downloads. But highest fidelity is rarely the reason that I am listening to it.
It is so rare, I am not a still and do nothing person (that is the absolute, most difficult thing for me to do).
Having wheels on my chair, that can spin & the ability to reset it up and down is like God knew that I needed to be moving and sent me out to get a chair that would allow me to stay in constant motion. If I would have had chairs like that at our dinner table when I was growing up: that would have been a serious issue with my parents.

 

[MattHooper]

I agree 100% with you ... but ... for the masses, the cartoon is true anyway. I use vinyl and CDs, because i love physical media, but i know i'm not part of the majority.

My friend, who is an audio reviewer, was one of the record spinning hold outs. So even in the 90s onwards, his system was almost vinyl only.

He finally introduced streaming into that system a couple years ago, and now he says out of sheer laziness and convenience he’s mostly streaming.

I told him about this article and he said if somebody asked him if they should start collecting vinyl, he would say hell no!
Too expensive now. Run away.
He said the thought of starting over with just one album at a time, especially these prices would make him abandoned the idea.

I don’t quite share his view, but I understand it.

 

[Sal1950]

Kept mine but have stuff from my mother and grandmother (Appalachian, Austrian folk music, Gullah and other stuff that is virtually unobtanium in any format these days).

And how much do you listen to it? LOL

 

[EJ3]

And how much do you listen to it? LOL

Daily, if I am home, as I do FM Radio (I can pull in decent stations that are not from the conglomerates and have decent LOCAL programing from over 80 miles away [sometimes 100 but that highly depends on conditions]) with an antenna mounted on top of the chimney.
In the car I listen to FM (unless my wife is with me, she would rather just here the car/truck without music [I would end up with a wife that doesn't like music at all] when I'm the type that could have it on all the time that I am awake {can't deal with music or TV when I'm trying to sleep}).

 

[Bland_username42069]

at the end of the day you can only use the format that’s available and sometimes that is vinyl.

 

[mike70]

No at all, used CD players, including those that will play DVD and BluRay discs are available for next to nothing and will provide you the exact same beautiful sound quality you get from a brand new one. The same goes for the CD's, they have to be extremely damaged not to play back in a bit perfect manner.
The exact opposite is true about vinyl. Decent tables and needles are very expensive, used vinyl is mostly noisy junk, finding ones in decent condition is like panning for gold.

having all the catalog available for 10 usd per month ... and you can use it with a click in your phone? ... mmm.
I respect your opinion anyway, but i think you're a cd lover

 

[mike70]

My friend, who is an audio reviewer, was one of the record spinning hold outs. So even in the 90s onwards, his system was almost vinyl only.

He finally introduced streaming into that system a couple years ago, and now he says out of sheer laziness and convenience he’s mostly streaming.

I told him about this article and he said if somebody asked him if they should start collecting vinyl, he would say hell no!
Too expensive now. Run away.
He said the thought of starting over with just one album at a time, especially these prices would make him abandoned the idea.

I don’t quite share his view, but I understand it.

sure ... you can't talk about vinyl thinking on cost.
is like thinking on accuphase or macintosh searching for price / performance

on the convenience part, well i think the "no convenient" part is justly the "good part", because generally people that likes vinyl likes the ritual to use it.
to "slow down" the costly effect, i only buy used vinyl from respected sellers ... and i don't have any complain about it.
a good cleaning method, and voila! ... a very good sound without pops / cracks / whatever. Enjoyable. My experience.

 

[Sal1950]

Daily, if I am home, as I do FM Radio (I can pull in decent stations that are not from the conglomerates and have decent LOCAL programing from over 80 miles away [sometimes 100 but that highly depends on conditions]) with an antenna mounted on top of the chimney.

LOL. Whats that got to do with listening to your cherished "mother and grandmother (Appalachian, Austrian folk music" on vinyl?

having all the catalog available for 10 usd per month ... and you can use it with a click in your phone? ... mmm.
I respect your opinion anyway, but i think you're a cd lover

Ah streamings fine, I do that too. But mainly to preview 2ch stuff I'm not familiar with before purchase. . Also a large percentage of new files added here are Multichannel and Atmos that are only available as lossy versions on streamers, so if I like it, I want to get the lossless versions off hard media like bluray etc.

 

[EJ3]

having all the catalog available for 10 usd per month ... and you can use it with a click in your phone? ... mmm.
I respect your opinion anyway, but i think you're a cd lover

The phone doesn't work here unless I stand in a certain position in a certain spot outside, on my deck (about 10 feet off the ground) and then the connection is very sporadic.
But I could drive 5 miles & get a good cell connection.
Somehow, listening to some of my 600 or so vinyl albums or my 600 or so CD's seems much simpler than erecting a setup to get cell signals at my house.
Anyway, it's sort of like having a dead 8 foot long snake zip tied to the property gate (not having cell phone reception), it keeps company down.

LOL. Whats that got to do with listening to your cherished "mother and grandmother (Appalachian, Austrian folk music" on vinyl?

Until I digitize them (and my unopened Reel to Reels of the conversations between Houston and the Moon Landing astro-nuts of the Apollo missions) [none of my other reel to reels are that important] and, believe it or not, the vinyl albums of the same music on reel to reel, is better. No, of course not CD (or streaming quality [if it's good, I can't tell it from CD but usually it's not that good] {at least not at places I've heard streaming}) (friends homes with questionable gear).

Ah streamings fine, I do that too. But mainly to preview 2ch stuff I'm not familiar with before purchase. . Also a large percentage of new files added here are Multichannel and Atmos that are only available as lossy versions on streamers, so if I like it, I want to get the lossless versions off hard media like bluray etc.

Yep, my preferred, when I am buying something new.

Hey, @mike70, (@Sal1950 already knows) I won't trade my location for the ability to stream, either:

You CAN actually make it here without a 4x4 but it can't be in something low. Sedans can make it (very slowly) only if they have less than two 200LB people in them. Even then, one may have to walk (actually a good idea, to direct where the driver should be pointing the wheels each step of the way).

 

[Sal1950]

Hey, @mike70, (@Sal1950 already knows) I won't trade my location for the ability to stream, either:

Yea but running water and a inside toilet would be nice.
Last I was there, that lake water tasted like crap

 

[mike70]

The phone doesn't work here unless I stand in a certain position in a certain spot outside, on my deck (about 10 feet off the ground) and then the connection is very sporadic.
But I could drive 5 miles & get a good cell connection.
Somehow, listening to some of my 600 or so vinyl albums or my 600 or so CD's seems much simpler than erecting a setup to get cell signals at my house.
Anyway, it's sort of like having a dead 8 foot long snake zip tied to the property gate (not having cell phone reception), it keeps company down.

Until I digitize them (and my unopened Reel to Reels of the conversations between Houston and the Moon Landing astro-nuts of the Apollo missions) [none of my other reel to reels are that important] and, believe it or not, the vinyl albums of the same music on reel to reel, is better. No, of course not CD (or streaming quality [if it's good, I can't tell it from CD but usually it's not that good] {at least not at places I've heard streaming}) (friends homes with questionable gear).

Yep, my preferred, when I am buying something new.

Hey, @mike70, (@Sal1950 already knows) I won't trade my location for the ability to stream, either:
View attachment 515314
You CAN actually make it here without a 4x4 but it can't be in something low. Sedans can make it (very slowly) only if they have less than two 200LB people in them. Even then, one may have to walk (actually a good idea, to direct where the driver should be pointing the wheels each step of the way).

Now we have satellital internet like Starlink, with great speed and cost. Food for thought.

And I'm glad you have your place to escape from "the world". Good to avoid certain madness in actual living.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

The phone doesn't work here unless I stand in a certain position in a certain spot outside, on my deck (about 10 feet off the ground) and then the connection is very sporadic.
But I could drive 5 miles & get a good cell connection.
Somehow, listening to some of my 600 or so vinyl albums or my 600 or so CD's seems much simpler than erecting a setup to get cell signals at my house.
Anyway, it's sort of like having a dead 8 foot long snake zip tied to the property gate (not having cell phone reception), it keeps company down.

Until I digitize them (and my unopened Reel to Reels of the conversations between Houston and the Moon Landing astro-nuts of the Apollo missions) [none of my other reel to reels are that important] and, believe it or not, the vinyl albums of the same music on reel to reel, is better. No, of course not CD (or streaming quality [if it's good, I can't tell it from CD but usually it's not that good] {at least not at places I've heard streaming}) (friends homes with questionable gear).

Yep, my preferred, when I am buying something new.

Hey, @mike70, (@Sal1950 already knows) I won't trade my location for the ability to stream, either:
View attachment 515314
You CAN actually make it here without a 4x4 but it can't be in something low. Sedans can make it (very slowly) only if they have less than two 200LB people in them. Even then, one may have to walk (actually a good idea, to direct where the driver should be pointing the wheels each step of the way).

By the look of it, the only music you need, is the sound of nature!

 

[EJ3]

Now we have satellital internet like Starlink, with great speed and cost. Food for thought.

And I'm glad you have your place to escape from "the world". Good to avoid certain madness in actual living.

H'mm, I know how to do 60 miles of WIFI using two 2 watt transceivers.

After 9 extended trips to Salzburg, Austria (born home) from Charleston, SC (home after I was 2 months old, more or less).
Later in life, 18 years living on Islands and Atolls in the Indian Ocean and Western Pacific (Oceana) and 14 trips through the Panama canal.

I married on one of those Islands. 20 years later, she is here with me now.

I no longer have a need to work (and I enjoy life on my terms). My wife and I spend most of our time at the home in the picture.
Sometimes we are at our home in the City (about 45 miles away and where I am doing this from now). Sometimes we are at a home elsewhere (because a home is where you hang your hat up, and we travel [many times for months at a time]).
But not having internet at this home (which is also the last home on the power grid in this area that is now a county, state and federally protected area from building any new or enlarging any existing structures place. Yee Hah!
So, it is a lifestyle choice to NOT have internet at this location. (family property since 1957).

Years before there was Starlink, I could easily have setup an antenna system to get a cell signal.
I did not want internet here then, nor now.
The original reason for my parents buying this place back then was that no telephone lines would be run to out here.
I'm keeping the reason of not wanting to be bothered by others alive here.

 

[EJ3]

Yea but running water and a inside toilet would be nice.
Last I was there, that lake water tasted like crap

You are right about the lake water.
The toilet is inside. The shower is in a labyrinth that is outside. But has HOT water, as does the kitchen and bathroom sinks inside. (someone stole the 4 pawed tub [found 2 miles away, on someone's front lawn that claimed they know nothing about it]). Anyway, we put it in the truck, took it back to the city and sold it.

Not a lake:
As the longest free-flowing blackwater river in the nation, the tea-stained Edisto River is an intimate attraction that may serve as the single most inviting canoe run in South Carolina. No dams or rapids are found anywhere on the Edisto, just the lazy, lolling current and relaxing ambience one might expect from such a picturesque Southern sanctuary.
The river ranks among the prettiest in the East, framed by massive oaks draped in Spanish moss and the largest old-growth stands of tupelo-cypress in America, as it ambles from spring-fed headwaters in the central Sandhills, through the heart of floodplain forests to the rich estuary of the Ashepoo/Combahee/Edisto (ACE) Basin. It’s a paddler’s paradise of some 250 miles, punctuated by the 56-mile Edisto River Canoe and Kayak Trail passing through both Colleton and Givhan’s Ferry state parks, both offering camping and picnicking sites.

Francis Beidler Forest is a 15,000-acre National Audubon Society Sanctuary that’s an internationally renowned destination for spotting dozens of bird species, mammals, reptiles, amphibians, and several rare plants. The Edisto passes through the sanctuary where it meets the braided bottomlands of Four Holes Swamp. Stay on the lookout for redbreast sunfish and other fauna, including wild turkey, beaver, kingfisher, great blue heron, and egrets along the way.
Oh! I almost forgot: and black bears:

I'm waiting on the lottery for the lake house, though:

Apparently you have to get there by bareback horse/dog, I don't know about that, though:

 

[PristineSound]

Not too long ago, I was at a show and was in a room with some guy talking about vinyl. I didn't catch the entire talk by the time I walked in, by the guys goes, some vinyl material are very soft and after each play, with the proper magnification, you can seen some shaving.

 

[Sal1950]

Not too long ago, I was at a show and was in a room with some guy talking about vinyl. I didn't catch the entire talk by the time I walked in, by the guys goes, some vinyl material are very soft and after each play, with the proper magnification, you can seen some shaving.

Yep There's always been numerous trade-offs in vinyl composition, needle profiles, tracking pressure & skating force, etc, etc etc that come into play. They effect the wear of both the playing surface and needle itself.
Like most all other 100 year old technologies, they have all sort of issues that modern equipment has eliminated and supplanted