The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

[dr0ss]

I first bought a Grado Green2 for it, because they were inexpensive, but Grado moving-iron designs pick up AC motor noise pretty readily, and I could hear the hum when the stylus was in the inside inch.

I just put a Grado Green3 on my Thorens TD160, and haven't noticed anything like that. I wonder why you had this issue and I don't.

 

[goat76]

Well, that’s certainly a genre!

I just checked out some of The Jesus Lizard (I’ve heard the band name before). Not a fan of the singing, but the rhythm section was really strong and a cool overall sound and vibe.

I would like to say that David Yow in The Jesus Lizard is a very unique ”vocalist”, but he is certainly not a great singer by any traditional standards. I can certainly see why some people can have a problem with his way of making ”noises”, but I like it.

The other members in the band are also really great musicians. I think Mac McNeilly is one heck of a drummer and very good at coming up with unique rhythm sections. David Wm. Sims is probably one of the best bass players in the world of rock music, and together with the guitarist Duane Denison, they almost form a sort of jazz vibe, even though the music is hard-hitting and very noisy. And speaking of jazz, in their opening track on the Goat album, the song "Then Comes Dudley" has clearly borrowed many elements from Miles Davis' "Great Expectations."

But as @IPunchCholla mentioned, if you are into great singing, you should check out the band Low. Their record, Things We Lost in the Fire, is a great audio production recorded and mixed by Steve Albini (R.I.P.), which contains a fair amount of real room acoustics, and you can really hear how the large live room sounds in Studio B at Electrical Audio in Chicago. Highly atmospheric recording, and the singing is beautiful as always with this band. Mimi Parker, rest in peace.

 

[rdenney]

I just put a Grado Green3 on my Thorens TD160, and haven't noticed anything like that. I wonder why you had this issue and I don't.

Move the tone arm right to the spindle with the volume up and see if you pick up 60-cycle hum. It isn’t terrible by any means and music masks it for the most part, but it’s there.

But it is also true that I need to replace the RCA plugs on the Thorens cable, one of which has gotten flaky.

The Grado cartridge I used for years on the DC-powered Technics never presented that issue, even though it has a power supply inside it.

Come to think of it, I wonder also if the metal sub platter of the 160 is shielding it in ways the plastic sub platter of the 166 is not. I should machine a metal sub platter and try it out.

Rick “fire up the lathe” Denney

 

[JP]

I just put a Grado Green3 on my Thorens TD160, and haven't noticed anything like that. I wonder why you had this issue and I don't.

It's well known thing as Grado doesn't shield their bodies. Google "Grado hum". IIRC, somewhere there's even a "database" of turntables where the problem manifests. Just depends on where the fields are and how strong in a given implementation.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Move the tone arm right to the spindle with the volume up and see if you pick up 60-cycle hum. It isn’t terrible by any means and music masks it for the most part, but it’s there.

But it is also true that I need to replace the RCA plugs on the Thorens cable, one of which has gotten flaky.

The Grado cartridge I used for years on the DC-powered Technics never presented that issue, even though it has a power supply inside it.

Come to think of it, I wonder also if the metal sub platter of the 160 is shielding it in ways the plastic sub platter of the 166 is not. I should machine a metal sub platter and try it out.

Rick “fire up the lathe” Denney

Think “Mu Metal” for shielding.

 

[dr0ss]

Move the tone arm right to the spindle with the volume up and see if you pick up 60-cycle hum.

Ugh, it's there, though only at excruciatingly high volumes. Not going to change the cartridge, since I like its sound (though maybe not as much as the Sumiko Blue Point MC cartridge it replaced). Next time I give the TT a thorough overhaul I'll have to find a way to shield it, either by shielding the motor or by lining the entire plinth.

 

[JP]

at excruciatingly high volumes

That may not be a Grado issue. Some hum/noise is inherent, the degree of which depends on many factors. My understanding of Grado him with 'tables that enable it is that it's rather intrusive.

 

[dr0ss]

It is definitely something that gets worse when the cartridge is close to the spindle, so probably is motor emf.

 

[MattHooper]

But as @IPunchCholla mentioned, if you are into great singing, you should check out the band Low. Their record, Things We Lost in the Fire, is a great audio production recorded and mixed by Steve Albini (R.I.P.), which contains a fair amount of real room acoustics, and you can really hear how the large live room sounds in Studio B at Electrical Audio in Chicago. Highly atmospheric recording, and the singing is beautiful as always with this band. Mimi Parker, rest in peace.

Thanks I checked out some of low.

I like the atmospheric vibe.

We probably have a different concept of
“ great singing” because I didn’t really get that. He certainly sings sensitively though.

I admit, I’m a very hard sell for vocalists. As I’ve gotten older, I found myself less interested in music with lyrics, and also less interested in music with vocals. So I do tend to prefer instrumental music these days.

I feel like I’m becoming my dad overtime who was a jazz musician and music teacher, and while he was open to lots of different type of music he still put a critical ear in and when somebody was singing on TV or whatever he would point out when they were singing out of tune or any other issues. I have a very sensitive ear for pitch (not perfect pitch) and it can be a bit of friction for me when I’m hearing somebody move in and out of pitch.

But I absolutely adore hearing what to my ears would be a really excellent professional vocalist.

There’s tons of young vocal groups popping up all over social media, and at first I sort of fell for it. I’d hear one of these groups and marvel at their talent and how well they sing in tune. But then I remembered: oh God, we’re living in the age of autotune and pitch correction. And sure enough just about all of them have been pitch corrected… so I can no longer really appreciate it. My appreciation tends to go to vocalists from the time before auto tune in pitch correction.

 

[MattHooper]

Another wonderful video from Jana Dagdagon.

How Clearaudio MC cartridges are made.

She’s really doing YouTubes best looking and best produced video on audio subjects.

First of all this stuff looks amazingly tricky and intense to make! Second of all, there’s a wonderful Zen-like calming, feel to these videos:

 

[Palmer]

One of my current tables is a Clearaudio Emotion, the discontinued version - the Carbon arm. The tonearm lift would not go down all the way, and I believe that is one reason the previous owner sold it, at a great price. If anybody here has problems with the lifter, I would be glad to help in any way I can. Not a bad table, can be sourced for about 700.- or so - I have seen examples.

Cheers.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Woot! is offering the Clearaudio Concept V2 Moving Magnet phono cartridge for $149.99.

https://electronics.woot.com/offers/clearaudio-concept-v2-mm-high-output-3?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Isn’t that just a AT 95E in a different dress?

 

[MattHooper]

Due to a huge tinnitus flareup and some other health issues I haven’t been able to listen to music on my system for a looooong time.

But recently I’ve been using the wonderful Discographic app, which imports an organizes your Discogs library, but with a much better display and UI.

So it’s really simple to call up my entire vinyl library, tap any of the albums and play the links to tracks from those albums online (YouTube uploads). (and I’m talking about listening to the tracks on my iPhone.)

The thing that has struck me over and over is…damn do I ever have an absolutely wonderful collection of records! It’s so idiosyncratic that I would never push it as compelling for anyone else. But the music represents albums that were highly curated in terms of my purchases - I only selected the music I loved most due to the money and effort it took to acquire the records many of them very obscure. I can pick any one at random and the music absolutely thrills me.

I have a large ripped CD collection, and it contains some of my favourite music ever, but it’s not nearly as reliably “ I have to listen to this whole album” compelling for whatever reason.

My list of saved “ favourites” from my streaming apps like Tidal are even more uneven. Because it was so effortless to just click “ save as a favourite” when listening to streaming, that playlist is much more variable. Everything from I’m going to press favourites because “ this track is awesome” to “ this track is kinda interesting…”

Damn…. I really have to get back to listening to my records!!!!

 

[Frank Dernie]

Due to a huge tinnitus flareup and some other health issues I haven’t been able to listen to music on my system for a looooong time.

But recently I’ve been using the wonderful Discographic app, which imports an organizes your Discogs library, but with a much better display and UI.

So it’s really simple to call up my entire vinyl library, tap any of the albums and play the links to tracks from those albums online (YouTube uploads). (and I’m talking about listening to the tracks on my iPhone.)

The thing that has struck me over and over is…damn do I ever have an absolutely wonderful collection of records! It’s so idiosyncratic that I would never push it as compelling for anyone else. But the music represents albums that were highly curated in terms of my purchases - I only selected the music I loved most due to the money and effort it took to acquire the records many of them very obscure. I can pick any one at random and the music absolutely thrills me.

I have a large ripped CD collection, and it contains some of my favourite music ever, but it’s not nearly as reliably “ I have to listen to this whole album” compelling for whatever reason.

My list of saved “ favourites” from my streaming apps like Tidal are even more uneven. Because it was so effortless to just click “ save as a favourite” when listening to streaming, that playlist is much more variable. Everything from I’m going to press favourites because “ this track is awesome” to “ this track is kinda interesting…”

Damn…. I really have to get back to listening to my records!!!!

Interesting.
I haven't bought an LP for decades so my "collection" did not cost much. I started buying about an LP a week when I was a student and they were £1.50 for a full price record and some less than £1.00 and I have a few marked 7/6 which is about £0.37 in decimal pounds.
I haven't used discogs, whatever that is, though I seem to remember it being on a search page perhaps???

Anyway, thanks for the tip I shall look into it, though I pretty well have gone back entirely to playing CDs now and rarely stream anything.

 

[rdenney]

Due to a huge tinnitus flareup and some other health issues I haven’t been able to listen to music on my system for a looooong time.

But recently I’ve been using the wonderful Discographic app, which imports an organizes your Discogs library, but with a much better display and UI.

So it’s really simple to call up my entire vinyl library, tap any of the albums and play the links to tracks from those albums online (YouTube uploads). (and I’m talking about listening to the tracks on my iPhone.)

The thing that has struck me over and over is…damn do I ever have an absolutely wonderful collection of records! It’s so idiosyncratic that I would never push it as compelling for anyone else. But the music represents albums that were highly curated in terms of my purchases - I only selected the music I loved most due to the money and effort it took to acquire the records many of them very obscure. I can pick any one at random and the music absolutely thrills me.

I have a large ripped CD collection, and it contains some of my favourite music ever, but it’s not nearly as reliably “ I have to listen to this whole album” compelling for whatever reason.

My list of saved “ favourites” from my streaming apps like Tidal are even more uneven. Because it was so effortless to just click “ save as a favourite” when listening to streaming, that playlist is much more variable. Everything from I’m going to press favourites because “ this track is awesome” to “ this track is kinda interesting…”

Damn…. I really have to get back to listening to my records!!!!

Discogs is so picky about minor variations that I gave up trying to inventory my LPs there. But my library of them isn’t so large that I don’t remember what I have, and it’s certainly not getting any bigger.

Rick “but the CDs are flowing over the banks” Denney

 

[MattHooper]

Discord is so picky about minor variations that I gave up trying to inventory my LPs there.

I assume you were referring to Discogs?

One of the things that drives me mad about their system is that they only allow placing an album in one folder, rather than allowing nested folders.

For instance if you had a folder for all your Rush albums, you could no longer include any of those rush albums in another larger folder “ progressive rock.”

I have a large collection of Library/Production Music with albums from various library music companies, each who had their own style. I can organize those into separate folders for each production company, but I cannot have them be part of a single larger folder “Library Music.”

How a system aimed at organizing large music collections has continued to leave out one of the most obviously useful functions - which users have been asking for years - continues to blow my mind.

I never truly understand obvious bad moves like this with a software (let alone that they are rarely fixed despite demand)

Matt “ very happy to have been rid of physical CDs” Hooper

 

[rdenney]

I assume you were referring to Discogs?

…

Matt “ very happy to have been rid of physical CDs” Hooper

Indeed. £<^€%!! iPhone!

I keep my physical CDs. Those are a lifetime license to listen to that music no matter what the software and streaming industries do to rent-seek.

Rick “as long as I can sustain playback capability” Denney

 

[Balle Clorin]

For instance if you had a folder for all your Rush albums, you could no longer include any of those rush albums in another larger folder “ progressive rock.”

What is progressive about Rush??
But I do not see the problem..
I sort by band and chronological, in my shelf . I still remember every album and when and where I bought it , 50 years later

 

[MattHooper]

What is progressive about Rush??

Huh?

Rush has long been considered one of the cornerstones of progressive rock.

What kind of definition are you working with?