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The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

my experience of surprisingly enjoying the Rush remastered vinyl albums more than the CD versions
I think your experience is shared by others, as remaining record shops here in England have about half the shop dedicated to vinyl now, from. a few years back when there was none.

Opinions vary, and yes the sleeves are bigger etc, but the eye watering cost would I think cancel that out. Yes, recently I spent £95 and came away with exactly 3 albums..

My own viewpoint is that the signal they are cut with is superior. I.e. the Mastering is more important than the Medium.
Of course some CDs can be better than some vinyl, but on the whole I think vinyl is cut more accurately.

CDs are limited to 44.1/16 which is a compression of the actual data, (and which in 2025 is desperately sad) whereas perhaps the vinyl is cut with 96k/24bit - this will have an effect (ignoring the outrage of people who swear by 44.1/16). But even the horror of 16bits doesn't really alter the waveform shape of a well recorded song. Plus some music is available in 48k/24 which is significantly more precise.

My theory however, perhaps easily tested, is that the final mastering of vinyl is not just higher resolution, but actively less compressed and less clipped.
E.g, as this Nelly Futado track shows (The original is to the left, and within the lines on the big graph, the 'reconstructed' to the right), some CD waveforms are not 'vinyl ready'. Some are much, much... much worse. Much worse.

This also puts aside the 'lossless' debate, as sometimes reminiscent of a discussion about the deckchairs on the Titanic.
As summary, my theory is that of you take a well mastered signal, cut it, press it, ship it, stick it on a turntable at 33 1/3 rpm and drag a diamond along the grooves, with some serious RIAA EQ at both ends... it still sounds better - than the mashed CD master :D

If anyone rips vinyl, and has the same 'hot' mastered song on CD, it would be interesting to see if I'm correct !
I don't have anything setup to rip vinyl currently, apologies - but maybe someone has. An A/B waveform look may be instructive :)
 

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I can think of precisely one (1) case in my experience when a record sounded noticeably more dynamic than the contemporary issued CD of the same performance. That was the original release of Philip Glass's Einstein on the Beach, which was published on vinyl by CBS Masterworks in 1979:


The CD box set came out several years later, and I can't tell from the Discogs entry when it came out or whether it received its final mastering differently than the LP:


My buddy (the one who gave me the Axis turntable) had the CD version, and I had the LP version. On both his system and mine back in the middle 80's, the LP version was noticeably more dynamic--and we did make adjustments to match the volume. I don't have the data to back it up, but even the CD I burned from a needledrop had more dynamics than the commercial CD from the day, which is why it seems to me likely to have been a mastering decision. In 1987, even a needledrop on cassette tape (TEAC cassette deck and Technics turntable in my system, not his better Linn turntable and Nakamichi cassette deck) had more dynamics than the issued CD. I need to see if I can borrow his CD, if he still has it, and compare the files digitally. I'll bet later CD releases were better.

But that's the only example I can think of. I do have some old CD of a Harry James recording that had (very) noticeable aliasing, but that CD was made in the first year CD's were on offer and I bet the company just threw a declicked needledrop onto a CD with whatever settings came from the factory--there was a panic among record companies in those days to get everything out in CD format.

The vast majority of CD's in my collection, however, sound better than the LP counterpart for whatever reason. That does not mean the LP's don't still sound good enough to enjoy for the sake of music enjoyment, because thy do.

I have a few LP's that people have given me that are modern remastered versions on vinyl of albums that came out in much higher production back in the day. One of them is Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. That album sounds excellent, and better than my copy from the deeps of time. That could mean one of two things: 1.) my old version is degraded because I played it on my GE record player, or 2.) the original was pressed onto recycled car upholstery using a die that had already stamped five times as many disks as it was designed to. Such was production of popular albums in those days. Probably both of those reasons are true. The current one is pristine, 180-gram vinyl, etc., etc. And it's probably digitally remastered, too. As I said, it sounds great. But it doesn't sound any better than the CD.

Rick "preferring 70's mixing/mastering decisions for non-classical, but that's about time period not medium" Denney
 
You are correct; I never said vinyl is technically superior. I just wanted to report that there's "something" with the vinyl playback that, in my subjective experience, makes it a little bit more pleasant-sounding, and a bit more convincing-sounding on vinyl compared to the same album in digital form. I don't believe the vinyl playback is "digging out" any extra information from the recordings. Instead, I think there is something added in the vinyl playback, which is probably technically inferior to the perfect digital playback, but I think it adds some sort of "perfect imperfections" to the playback that makes it pleasant to my ear. I'm not sure what it is, but if I'm allowed to speculate, my first thought is that it is some sort of harmonic distortion that makes it more "organic-sounding" (for the lack of finding another short description).

I very much enjoyed reading your post. It’s fun reading about somebody getting a new turntable and their reactions to playing records, including any surprises along the way as you mention.

And judging from the support your post has been getting with upvotes, it’s clear others enjoy it as well (as opposed to supporting the sentiment of clamping down on such posts).

It’s interesting that some vinyl enthusiasts (like myself) prefer to avoid obvious vinyl artifacts (ticks, and pops, and background hiss), while some of new vinyl enthusiasts, young people, actually like crackly sounding vinyl. They get some sort of warm and cozy and perhaps nostalgic feeling from it.

I seem to prefer certain vinyl distortion and artifacts that are more subtly integrated in to the sound. Probably along the lines that you’re trying to speculate about, but I’m not competent to speculate so I’ll leave that to others if they want to do that.

What are a couple of the “top favourite” records you bought?

My own viewpoint is that the signal they are cut with is superior. I.e. the Mastering is more important than the Medium.

That’s been my experience in my own set up.
I get great sound from whatever medium I play. I find the recording quality, mastering quality, and production quality most influential on the overall sound quality I hear, less so the medium.

Regarding the Rush albums: I was a huge rush fan growing up, though I got off the rush bandwagon sometime after their 80s Signals albums. I bought all those albums on CD and I would listen to them occasionally, but not with the fervor I used to have.

But early and getting back into the vinyl maybe around 2016 or 2017 I picked up a vinyl remaster of the 2112 album. It was so nice holding a spanking new beautiful album in my hands. And for whatever reason the sound just seemed to burst from my speakers in a way it hadn’t for such a long time. The whole experience put together revitalized my enthusiasm for listening to Rush, and I bought all of the remasters up until signals, and now I listen regularly.

The same revitalization went on when I started buying the remasters of the early Van Halen vinyl albums, and other groups. (I was a Max Webster fan as well and bought a box set of remastered vinyl, but I was disappointed in the remastering quality which sounded a bit thin and coarse. So instead, I stuck with repurchasing better qualities of the original vinyl and boy do those original album albums sound better… big and rich and clear).
 
it depends, if they stay with what you said you paid for it or ... if they checked for the real value :-)
Well, it just sits there, looking as ordinary as they always did. Quobuz, streamed on this phone, actually sounds better!
 
Thomas: Over here that's still a pretty popular term - so one can har or read "(...) zieht sich durch wie ein roter Faden" quite often.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
According to what I remember of my born City's (Salzburg) Austrian German: It sticks out like a red thread.
 
Well, it just sits there, looking as ordinary as they always did. Quobuz, streamed on this phone, actually sounds better!
Some people garbage are other people treasure.
Giving it away to someone who would cherish it seems to best way to go, if it does not do anything for you anymore.
That said, I totally agree, nothing wrong for enjoying music streamed from a phone, all the elements are there and it is a lot more practical to use anywhere you feel like listening to music. I know I enjoy great music from an older Samsung galaxy, streaming music to my Truthear IEM’s, when I wake up I the middle of the night and cannot play music on my mains systems, as my wife would not appreciate it. When I connect that same phone to my main sysetem, it also sounds just fine to me as well.
It just happens that I also particularly appreciate spinning a record on my LP12, in the right circumstances. Same music, different sensations.
 
On to the turntables….. sharing my history.

I think a lot of us appreciate photos of gear so I’m providing those.

My dad was something of an audiophile, Stereo mag reader etc, and it was either late 70s or early 80s that he brought home big flagship KEF 105.2 speakers, with Carver amplification - a Carver cube amp and the famous “sonic holography” C-4000 preamp. And a Technics SL-1200 series turntable. I’m not sure precisely the model but one of these guys:



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When I moved into my current house in the 90s, I inherited that turntable. Since I had some of my old records, still kicking around I throw that turntable into my system sometimes and listen to records for a bit of a nostalgia trip.

Later my father-in-law, a classical music enthusiast, and somewhat audiophile, gave me his turntable because he had long ago switched to CDs.

It was a beautiful MICRO SEIKI DD-40 Turntable - w Ortofon Cartridge, MA-505 Tonearm:


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I had that for a number of years and I noticed that vinyl was sounding better on my system, even my older records. Some of that could simply be due to how old the Technics cartridge had been I don’t know. But in either case I started to enjoy the actual sound of my vinyl records, which could sound really luscious. (especially if they weren’t too noisy).

That combined with all the production of new vinyl, starting with my obsession of movie, soundtracks and buying many gorgeously designed soundtracks on vinyl, started me back buying new records again.

And of course, the more I bought the more serious I got and, being my audiophile self, I thought it would it be worth to upgrade my vinyl front end.

I ended up purchasing used, as much reduced price, a German made high mass turntable:

A Transrotor Fat Bob S Turntable which uses a “ magnetic drive bearing.” Since some people here like technical details, I had ChatGPT (sorry) describe it:

———-

It’s a magnetically coupled bearing + inverted hydrodynamic (oil-fed) support bearing. In practice that means: the platter/sub-platter is supported by a lubricated bearing shaft (hydrodynamic oil), and the actual platter is driven not by a physical belt directly acting on it, but via magnetic coupling.

The magnetic coupling creates a physical decoupling between motor drive and platter — the drive belt (or motor) spins a sub-platter / sub-assembly, and that sub-assembly magnetically “drags” the main platter. Because there’s no rigid mechanical link, this reduces transmission of motor noise or vibrations into the platter, resulting in smoother rotation, minimal friction, reduced resonance and improved speed stability.


—————-

Integrating a magnetic bearing seems to be pretty common now in the high end turntable sphere (that is at least of the type that make their appearance at audio shows and audio mags). But I believe previous turntables had also done something similar (?)

It came with a 12 inch Acoustic Solid Arm and a Benz Micro Ebony L cartridge:


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The original motor controller was the cylinder at the bottom of the picture to the right with the notch.

The whole top was a big dial for turning on the turntable and choosing the speed. It had a very wonderful hand feel, very smooth with a nice clunk for each position.

I can’t speak to the success of any of their particular technical claims of the turntable/arm/cartridge but I was blown away by the results.

Vinyl records played quieter than ever in terms of background noise, and the level of clarity and separation and detail seemed to improve distinctly, putting clean records more in competition to what I was hearing from my digital front end.

Which, of course only spread more record buying! And boy did I spend a lot of money on records! Especially when I got into the genre of Library Music which by nature are all rare records (and mostly not available on digital, except now for the KPM library).

Later on I got a good deal on Transrotor’s top level motor controller. A very big beast with a satisfyingly large, silky knob feel:


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Also shown in the above photo is my JE Audio phono stage. I really like it because it has every feature in setting easily visible and accessible on the front panel. (the description of some phono stages, where you have to take the unit out and move little switches on the bottom, or even in some cases, literally take off a panel and reroute jumpers, makes my blood chill).

Finally, in preparation for receiving that big heavy turntable, I wanted to deal with my puny old hollow tubed Lovan equipment rack on which would be sitting. The floor beneath that rack is wood and quite springy and transmits foot fall very easily. When my son who is quite big walks by, it would often skip records.

So I went down the rabbit hole of building a turntable isolation platform. It’s sort of a compilation of some of the things I tried and leftovers. It’s a solid butcher block - smoked maple - and that put your block is sitting upon another sort of constrained layer sandwich of MDF with steel in the middle. And then all that is sitting on four Townshend Audio Seismic Pods (Spring based):


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I have doubts this heroic isolation base improves the sound quality of the turntable. But it certainly does stop any heavy footsteps from skipping records. Especially with the spring pods, I can stamp the ground around the equipment rack and feel virtually nothing getting through to the turntable. It also helps with the fact we have a big air-conditioning unit on the other side of the wall outside, and when it turns on in the summer, it sends rumbling through the walls and floor, and none of that gets through to the turntable with this is isolation base.

Back to the rest of the gang…
 
Thank you for sharing your experience and how it makes you fell.
Is it your first TT?

I started my TT journey beginning of the 80’s, was mostly listening to FM and tape before that.
My first was a Beogram 4000 with parallel tracking.
Then I switched to what would be my TT for the rest of my life. LP12.
As it is an upgradable design and I was a lot more gullible then, I changed arms, cartridge, grommets, power supply, as me dealers and friends were telling what was better about it and sure enough I could hear it as well and tell the world about it.
I stopped at Arkiv, Ekos, circus and Dirak.
I am still enjoying it after all those years, so in retrospect, it was money well spent.
I recently put a cartridge on a second turntable that was given to me, AT 95 on Technics sl d2, on my second system.
They both play well enough to make me appreciate and enjoy the music on my records.
Having 2 dedicated music room with very well positioned seat and speakers and selecting well produced music has, in my opinion a much larger role on how the music is presented than choosing the source format.

It’s my first high-quality turntable. I wasn't really that much into hi-fi when I was younger as all my money was spent on skateboarding. But me and my friends often visited the local hi-fi dealer to listen in their demo room, so I was always aware of great sound reproduction, and as the local hi-fi store is a Linn dealer, I have likely been listening on a few LP12s over the years. When I was finally got into buying something of higher quality, CDs were the main format.

I had some thoughts about buying a Linn turntable, but I decided to go for a Technics GR2 direct drive turntable, as those seem to require less maintenance than belt-driven Linn turntables.
I use the MC preamp in my Linn Akurate DSM, and an Audio-Technica AT33PTG/II cartridge. The combination sounds great, and I like how easy it is the set these Technics turntables up.
 
What are a couple of the “top favourite” records you bought?

Well, I have a “certain” taste in music that will probably not suit everyone. I’m mostly into noise rock, post-rock, and similar. My first LPs have been four records by the band Shellac, a few records with The Jesus Lizard, Slint, U.S Maple, Low, and the debut record by The Breeders.
 
Well, I have a “certain” taste in music that will probably not suit everyone. I’m mostly into noise rock, post-rock, and similar. My first LPs have been four records by the band Shellac, a few records with The Jesus Lizard, Slint, U.S Maple, Low, and the debut record by The Breeders.

Well, that’s certainly a genre!

I just checked out some of The Jesus Lizard (I’ve heard the band name before). Not a fan of the singing, but the rhythm section was really strong and a cool overall sound and vibe.
 
Well, that’s certainly a genre!

I just checked out some of The Jesus Lizard (I’ve heard the band name before). Not a fan of the singing, but the rhythm section was really strong and a cool overall sound and vibe.
Low has beautiful singing.
 
It’s my first high-quality turntable.

I had some thoughts about buying a Linn turntable, but I decided to go for a Technics GR2 direct drive turntable, as those seem to require less maintenance than belt-driven Linn turntables.
I use the MC preamp in my Linn Akurate DSM,
Nice, if I had known what I know now, I probably not have bought a LP12 either, not that there is something wrong with it and the price then was very different from what seem to me to be way over the top now.
But I bought it on false pretends and that is not fair. I would have kept my Beogram.
Still, I am glad it turned out the way it did, it is an icon, it plays well, still actual after close to 40 years.
It is well designed and engineered, still supported, that is also a good thing.
It is just not magical, I was a fool for believing all the snake oil around it.
I have listen to many TT since and honestly the little technic I also have now, does a very good job.
They both go from A to B, but yes subjectively I prefer playing the LP12, the same way I prefer wearing my TAG instead of my Timex.
So, in my opinion, you made the right choice, the GR2 will let you enjoy the music on your record just as well.
 
I like to have 2 files digitalized from the GR2 and the mk7 (same record/cartridge / pre / ADC)

I don't think there's much difference also :-)
 
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