The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

[dlaloum]

I have the Michell clamp on my Gyro SE. Supposedly it couples the record to the platter so the 2 act as one object, which is supposed to offer audible improvements. Haven't done an A/B test or anything but things feel more solid with clamp screwed down, so I always use it on the Gyro. I admire the design of this table deeply, so I have trust in Michell engineering, and they think it's a good idea.

I too use a clamp - for a couple of reasons:

1) It is lighter than a weight, so it does not put additional wear&tear on the platter bearing
2) It slides under my linear tracking Revox tonearm - which standard weights/pucks won't do!

I do have a vague recollection of doing some measurements about 15 years ago, and finding that it had a minor/marginal measurable impact... nothing to write home about but it was a positive - after which I set that aside, and I honestly cannot remember what I measured or what was the exact result, just the "vibe of the thing"... (sorry to be so wishy washy subjective about it!)

 

[Frank Dernie]

It’s been awhile since anyone has posted to this thread. So, time to revive it.

There are a lot of record weights or pucks available - from well less than $ 100 to over a $1000. I use one to keep the record from slipping when I use the carbon fiber brush, however, I have not spent any time trying to measure any positive or negative effects on playback.
Does anyone have any hard data on this?

The clamp is an integral part of the design in my Goldmund Reference TT because the platter is about 1mm concave and pushing the label down and clamping it irons out small warps.
I don't use one on my other 3 turntables, the Roksan even has a centre pin you can remove after centring the record so the only contact between disc and platter is via the felt mat.

I would be concerned about using any substantial weight because unless in the original design neither the thrust bearing nor the lubrication system may be up to it.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I think the long vinyl thread you just locked served a purpose, as it worked as an open discussion of both ups and downs for the vinyl format. If that kind of debate is taken to this thread, I’m afraid posts that are not all in favor of the vinyl format will be seen as not so welcome contributions in this thread. We had interesting discussions and comparisons in that other thread vinyl thread, I don't know where those can be had now when that thread is locked.

I think the general attitude of people here to LP replay is well enough known for us not to need frequent and continual slagging off or rose tinted specs any more from the usual suspects.
It is like a scratched record

I rarely play LPs any more but I do have LPs I bought in the 60s and 70s to play if I feel like it. The strengths and weaknesses are somewhat ironic these days...

 

[Newman]

I think the long vinyl thread you just locked served a purpose, as it worked as an open discussion of both ups and downs for the vinyl format.

Actually it didn't. Vinyl defenders took it over and got hostile towards anyone who tried to discuss pros and cons with a balanced perspective. People who saw both sides were asked to leave, asked why they were visiting the thread if they had negatives to say about vinyl, reported at the least excuse as if vinyl lovers were being offended by association when vinyl is criticised, etc. Very unfriendly place for open discussion about vinyl. I may be wrong but in the end I think the mods also started to think of it as a 'safe space' vinyl love thread. That's why this thread withered on the vine, even though it was originally started part way through that vinyl thread (see post dated one day before this thread was started) specifically in order to make a safe space for vinyl lovers to escape the cauldron of open discussion of vinyl with all its flaws. Why would vinyl lovers come here if they had 'converted' the open discussion thread into a love thread?

If that kind of debate is taken to this thread, I’m afraid posts that are not all in favor of the vinyl format will be seen as not so welcome contributions in this thread.

Correct. That's the whole point of this thread.

We had interesting discussions and comparisons in that other thread vinyl thread, I don't know where those can be had now when that thread is locked.

How about this one? @RickS? Or we could open a new one with a clear title and purpose that it is about balanced discussion ("ups and downs" as you put it), and manage it properly.

 

[EJ3]

I will take advantage to share here my feelings about listening to my turntable. Recordings and speaker placement and where you sit in relation to both the speakers and in the room is the most important. But then when you have that tackled, in my experience, which is about listening to music while doing nothing else, listening to my records on my turntable is almost always more involving and satisfactory that listening to my CD’s or to my music on my hard drive. Nothing wrong with he digital source, in some aspect it is “cleaner” sounding, instrument separation is excellent, dynamic is very good, so why do I prefer my records? My records are more homogenous, they make sense, the sound stage when i close my eyes is like being somewhere else, the music grabs me, atmosphere are more intense, sounds are all there, all instrument are clearly divided but at the same time they play together in harmony.
I know, most here think digital is better, what is measured here on ASR shows digital as superior, so why do I feel closer to the music, more entertained, inspired to concentrate and intensively listening to music, not doing anything else, for hours, when using my turntable and much less when listening to digital source?
A lot here, newer to records use, what are to me “cheap” direct drive TT which average MM cartridge. The belief is that better turntable do not measure better therefore do not give better music. Is it the same issue as with digital, can it be more to it that just what we measure? When I did my TT discovery in the 80’s, à better TT, arm, cartridge, sounded and played better music than the direct drive with cheap arms and MM cartridge, no measurement, but my ears were convinced.
I am pretty sure a lot here will not agree or even not understand what my post is about, but if only one or 2, who are sharing my experience feel less isolated, in this forum, I will be happy.

My turntable journey led me to this (after optimizing the things that you said in your second sentence):
Audio Database

• Technics SL-M3​

• ¥ 99,800 (around 1986)

Commentary​

A full-auto player with linear tracking system.

It is equipped with a unique linear tracking arm that can make tracking error, which causes distortion during playback, and inside force, which causes channel imbalance, close to 0.
The tracking error angle is within ± 0.05 ° by detecting the arm deflection angle with an optical sensor and obtaining a high-precision detection signal.

The tone arm uses a unique dynamic balance system, and the arm bearing uses a 4-point support system gimbal suspension system.
In addition, the arm has a low mass design with an effective mass of 13g including the cartridge.

Diameter 32.5 cm, Weight 2.5 kg, Inertial Mass 427 kg / cm2Large and heavy aluminum die-cast turntable has been adopted.

Continuously variable pitch adjustment within ± 6% is possible.

Equipped with an electronically controlled full auto mechanism.

Equipped with plug-in connector system MM type cartridge.

TNRC and high-density particle board are used for the cabinet.

• 
  
• 

Model Rating​

Type	Quartz DD full auto player system
<Turntable portion>
Drive system	Direct drive
Control system	Quartz control
Number of revolutions	33 1/3, 45 rpm
Wow flutter	0.022%W.R.M.S(JIS C5521) 0.008% W. R. M. S (Rotating Part Only)
Signal-to-noise ratio	82 dB (DIN-B, IEC98A weighted)
Cartridge Section
Type	Plug-in connector MM type stereo cartridge
Exchange needle	EPS-P205ED4(¥15,000)
<General>
Pwer	100 VAC, 50Hz/60Hz
Power consumption	22W
External dimensions	Width 526x Height 202x Depth 426 mm
Weight	13.5kg

I also have a DUAL 1229 that I am quite happy with (with a custom American Walnut plinth):
Audio Database

• Dual 1229​

• Price unknown (cabinet sold separately, around the early 1970 s?)

Commentary​

A turntable incorporating manual / automatic functions and operability into the design criteria of a professional-grade turntable.

The 1229 offers four playback modes : a manual turntable, a single-play turntable that automatically plays a single record, a multi-play turntable that automatically plays six consecutive records, and repeat play.

In manual play, the tone arm returns automatically and the turntable stops rotating when the play is finished. In single play, it starts with one action of the start switch. When it stops, it returns automatically and the turntable stops as in manual play.
In automatic multi-play, a single play spindle is replaced with a multi-play spindle, and six records are set on top of each other. After that, if you press the start switch, all of them operate automatically. After six consecutive playing is finished, it returns automatically and the turntable stops rotating.
Repeat Play is a mode that uses a multi-play spindle and 45-turn donut adapter to play the same record repeatedly.

The spindle for single play is designed to rotate together with the turntable, and there is no uneven rotation caused by frictional resistance between the center hole of the record and the spindle.

We have adopted die-cast turntables.
There is a 50/60Hz strobe on the back of the turntable, which can be monitored with a strobe mirror on the panel. By rotating the ring, you can adjust the angle for easy viewing, and you can easily switch between 50 Hz and 60 Hz.

The pitch control adjusts the speed by ± 6%.

A newly designed synchronous continuous pole motor is used as the drive motor.


The tone arm is made of a light metal pipe with an effective length of 222 mm. This was the longest design for an auto turntable type player at that time. The tracking error is 1 ° 30 "for a record diameter of 110 to 293 mm. The resonance is between 8 and 14 Hz, below the audible frequency, and is designed to be higher than the lowest resonance frequency of the 1229 chassis suspension of 4.8 Hz when the cartridge is installed.
The support is a gyro-gimbal type support structure that Dual adopted for the first time as an auto turntable type player. This system uses high-precision miniature bearings for the support points of two inner and outer rings. By improving the sensitivity of the tone arm, it is also compatible with four channel record playback of a discrete method.

The anti-skating mechanism corresponds to the needle pressure and the type of needle tip. It is a dial system with red letters as elliptical needles and white letters as conical needles.

The needle pressure can be adjusted by turning the dial. The error of the direct reading value is within ± 0.1g. When the needle pressure of 3g to 5g is applied, it can be adjusted by rotating the counterweight. One rotation can adjust the needle pressure by 0.5g.
1229 is used with a needle pressure of 0.25g or more.

The counterweight part has a weight and a shaft pre-assembled, and the weight is dumped to the shaft via a rubber shock absorber to absorb resonance and shock of the arm.
In addition, when adjusting the 0 balance, this counterweight can be approximately balanced at the front and rear of the whole including the shaft, and by further rotating the counterweight it can be accurately balanced.

Equipped with a mode selector, an accurate vertical angle can be obtained.
With auto-turntable, the vertical angle differs between single-play and multi-play. With 1229, you can obtain an accurate vertical angle by changing the height of the supporting point of the tone arm with the mode selector. With multi-play, it becomes 15 degrees when playing the third record.
This mode selector also has a safety lock function and is designed so that when the multi-play spindle is installed, the automatic mechanism does not operate unless it is in the multi-play position.

The head shell is die-cast and the cartridge holder conforms to the EIA standard and is compatible with most commercially available cartridges.
The cartridge holder can be easily attached and detached by moving the finger of the head back and forth.

It is equipped with queue control (arm elevation mechanism) using Viscos dump cylinder.


There were 3 types of player cabinet as an option sold separately.
The CK-20/CH-20 is an original player case made by Dual. The front side of the base can be opened and closed, and spare shells, 45 adapters, multi-spindles, etc. can be stored. In addition, the acrylic cover can be fully opened on the upper side, and the front half can be opened and closed with a special acrylic hinge. In addition, the special hinge is detachable so that it can be used with the cover on during multi-play.
DB-31/DCOV-3 is a case made in Japan similar to the original. The front of the base can be opened and closed, and spare shells and multi-spindles can be stored inside. In addition, the acrylic cover can be detached with a special hinge, and it can be played with the cover in multi-play.
DB-3/DCOV-3 is a standard type case and has the same dimensions and finish as DB-31, but the storage spacer is omitted.

• 
  
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Model Rating​

Type	Record player
Turntable	30.5 cm non-magnetic die cast, 3.1 kg Fully dynamic balanced
Drive motor	Synchronous continuous pole motor
Speed	33 1/3, 45, 78 rpm
Pitch control	Each speed 6% (about half tone)
Wow and flutter	Not more than 0.06% (according to DIN45 507)
Rumble (according to DIN45500)	-42dB -63dB
Tone arm	Extra Long Pipe Arm
Tone arm support	4-point gimbal
Tracking error	1.5 degrees or less
Tone arm angle (by cartridge)	Horizontal : 0.015g or less Vertical : not more than 0.007g
Cartridge mounting	With a detachable special shell (1 ~ 12g cartridge attachable)
Needle pressure adjustment	Direct Reading Dial, 0 ~ 3g Variable (Up to 5.5g Possible)
Anti-skating	Direct-Reading Dial with Conical / Elliptical Needle
Queue control	Silicone oil dump type
Strobe light	Neon-reflecting strobe (For 33 1/3, 45 rpm)
Pwer	AC110/220V, Switch Switching 50Hz/60Hz, replacement of motor pulley
Power consumption	Approx. 10W
External dimensions	Width 376x Height 26 (Counter Weight Part) x Depth 308 mm
Weight	7.2kg
Attachment	Single play spindle Multi-play spindle 45 Rotation Donut Board Adapter
Sold Separately	Dual Case / Cover CK-20/CH-20 (¥ 27,000) Domestic Case / Cover DB-31 (¥ 5,600) / DCOV-3 (¥ 4,300) Domestic Case / Cover DB-3 (¥ 3,400) / DCOV-3 (¥ 4,300) Spare Head Shell TK-14 (¥ 1,200) Donut Multi-Play Spindle AS-12 (¥ 1,800)

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• 

 

[Soniclife]

the Roksan even has a centre pin you can remove after centring the record so the only contact between disc and platter is via the felt mat

Have you ever heard it make a difference, I never did when I had a Roksan. The only thing it was useful for was to try and make slightly off-centre records playable, I've got exactly 1 record (something by Nick Cave) that it was useful for.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Have you ever heard it make a difference, I never did when I had a Roksan. The only thing it was useful for was to try and make slightly off-centre records playable, I've got exactly 1 record (something by Nick Cave) that it was useful for.

Never noticed a difference, no. I stopped taking it off.

 

[goat76]

I think the general attitude of people here to LP replay is well enough known for us not to need frequent and continual slagging off or rose tinted specs any more from the usual suspects.
It is like a scratched record

I rarely play LPs any more but I do have LPs I bought in the 60s and 70s to play if I feel like it. The strengths and weaknesses are somewhat ironic these days...

There are of course some people who mostly focus on the “slagging” part, but there are also people who take everything as slagging whenever someone just mentions some of the technical limitations of the vinyl format.

I find vinyl to be the most “romantic” music format that has ever existed, the whole analog procedure of playing a vinyl record is downright beautiful and fascinating. And besides that, the technical limitations of the vinyl format have often a side-effect of preserving the dynamics of the music.

 

[sq225917]

Vinyl, doesn't have the snr or thd+n of digital, but some people still prefer it. Nothing more needs to be said on the format comparison.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Why the record slips with the brush? Maybe is the mat you're using?

My Clearaudio table has a Delrin platter that allows the record to slip rather easily. The stock rubber mat on my new Technics table doesn't have that problem.
I have 2 center weights at the moment - both Clearaudio - Concept and Statement weights. Concept is light while Statement is heavy. Both have a polymer that contacts the spindle, but the Statement has multiple polymer balls doing point contacts away from the spindle - presumably to provide some kind of isolation from spindle vibrations. Stillpoints does this in their own way - decoupling - as well. Sighted listening tests usually provokes positive results, especially if the weight compliments the aesthetic value of the table. Comparing harmonics levels - using measurements like those in the "cartridge thread" - with and without weights might provide some validation of "improvements".

 

[Frank Dernie]

And besides that, the technical limitations of the vinyl format have often a side-effect of preserving the dynamics of the music.

It isn't the format that preserves the dynamics it is the released recordings. LPs are capable of less dynamics that 16-bit digital and early CDs were great but now that 99% of people listen to streamed digital files in noisy places digital music tends to be very compressed even though it doesn't need to be, so you can hear the quiet bits in a car/on ear buds, and LPs are only compressed as much as they need to be for the format since the distributors know LPs will be listened to at home. That is the irony I referred to.
The technical limit of the formats is not what dominates SQ any more it is the listening environment(s) anticipated by the music distributors...

 

[Bob from Florida]

Thanks for hosting this thread. I liked your OP enough to declare this as a safe place for vinyl discussion at ASR.

Feel free to report any members who are less than courteous in their posts. Vinyl advocates will be allowed to enjoy their preference without worry. Hopefully this will allow this thread to continue without the bickering that has plagued other comparable threads.

Exactly!

The reason I started this thread was to avoid the kind of discussions that plagued that thread "who's name shall not be spoken".

Let's keep this one a "clean" and "friendly" technical discussion about variables that improve or degrade vinyl playback. It doesn't have to be a "dry" textbook type discussion - emotional response to great music is a major part of the equation.

 

[somebodyelse]

I find vinyl to be the most “romantic” music format that has ever existed, the whole analog procedure of playing a vinyl record is downright beautiful and fascinating. And besides that, the technical limitations of the vinyl format have often a side-effect of preserving the dynamics of the music.

You could say the same about reel to reel - the 'ritual' of setting up the tape, adjustment necessary for optimum performance etc. For some it adds to the experience, while for others it's just an unnecessary PITA.

 

[goat76]

It isn't the format that preserves the dynamics it is the released recordings. LPs are capable of less dynamics that 16-bit digital and early CDs were great but now that 99% of people listen to streamed digital files in noisy places digital music tends to be very compressed even though it doesn't need to be, so you can hear the quiet bits in a car/on ear buds, and LPs are only compressed as much as they need to be for the format since the distributors know LPs will be listened to at home. That is the irony I referred to.
The technical limit of the formats is not what dominates SQ any more it is the listening environment(s) anticipated by the music distributors...

I know that vinyl is technically capable of less dynamics than CD, but to avoid possible problem both in the cutting process of making the vinyl and on the playback side avoiding the needle from jumping out of the grooves, a less loudness-maximized master is often used for the vinyl release. So even if the vinyl is technically less dynamically capable, the limitations mentioned often leads to higher dynamic releases than the CD release.

There are of course vinyl releases that are made from the same brick-walled master as the CD release, so the typical problems can obviously be avoided by just lowering the overall level before cutting the vinyl.

Another reason for the often higher dynamics of the vinyl can be that vinyl as a format is seen as a “audiophile format”, and therefore is made to better suit the audiophiles striving for higher dynamic releases.

If the main reason was “on the go” listening vs home listening, then the CD release would also more often have the same higher preserved dynamics as the vinyl, as that format is also mostly a “home listening” format these days.

 

[mike70]

It isn't the format that preserves the dynamics it is the released recordings. LPs are capable of less dynamics that 16-bit digital and early CDs were great but now that 99% of people listen to streamed digital files in noisy places digital music tends to be very compressed even though it doesn't need to be, so you can hear the quiet bits in a car/on ear buds, and LPs are only compressed as much as they need to be for the format since the distributors know LPs will be listened to at home. That is the irony I referred to.
The technical limit of the formats is not what dominates SQ any more it is the listening environment(s) anticipated by the music distributors...

That's why my "mantra" is : theory and practice are only equals in theory.
Vinyl is absolutely inferior in theory ... but in practice many things happens, and we're talking about science, not magic or romantic effects.

- what's the audible range in your ears? 20hz to 20khz?
- what's the dynamic range in your recordings? 90dB?
- what's your room SNR?
- the format doesn't support awful compression with sky high gain that plagued digital recordings
- do you listened to a really good analog system ? it sounds awful?

I don't say vinyl is superior (it's not), I say vinyl is enough. Sounds decent (very) and if you like the experience ... why not to use it?
That's all, it's not a literal implication of theoretical data.

 

[Frank Dernie]

If the main reason was “on the go” listening vs home listening, then the CD release would also more often have the same higher preserved dynamics as the vinyl, as that format is also mostly a “home listening” format these days.

Indeed, no need for CDs to have the same compression as files for streaming.

 

[Mart68]

What audiophiles mean by 'dynamics' is nothing to do with dynamic range. They don't understand what dynamic range is, or what effect it has on the sound.

I've often come across audiophiles complaining that early CD releases which preserve dynamic range have 'No dynamics.'

Up until the mid 1990s the LP version would often be more dynamically squashed than the CD release due to format limitation, the LP being preferred by some for that exact reason, it sounds to them 'more dynamic' even though it has considerably less dynamic range it has more 'punch' at lower volume levels.

 

[DSJR]

My turntable journey led me to this (after optimizing the things that you said in your second sentence):
Audio Database

• Technics SL-M3​

• ¥ 99,800 (around 1986)

Commentary​

A full-auto player with linear tracking system.

It is equipped with a unique linear tracking arm that can make tracking error, which causes distortion during playback, and inside force, which causes channel imbalance, close to 0.
The tracking error angle is within ± 0.05 ° by detecting the arm deflection angle with an optical sensor and obtaining a high-precision detection signal.

The tone arm uses a unique dynamic balance system, and the arm bearing uses a 4-point support system gimbal suspension system.
In addition, the arm has a low mass design with an effective mass of 13g including the cartridge.

Diameter 32.5 cm, Weight 2.5 kg, Inertial Mass 427 kg / cm2Large and heavy aluminum die-cast turntable has been adopted.

Continuously variable pitch adjustment within ± 6% is possible.

Equipped with an electronically controlled full auto mechanism.

Equipped with plug-in connector system MM type cartridge.

TNRC and high-density particle board are used for the cabinet.

• 
  
• 

Model Rating​

Type	Quartz DD full auto player system
<Turntable portion>
Drive system	Direct drive
Control system	Quartz control
Number of revolutions	33 1/3, 45 rpm
Wow flutter	0.022%W.R.M.S(JIS C5521) 0.008% W. R. M. S (Rotating Part Only)
Signal-to-noise ratio	82 dB (DIN-B, IEC98A weighted)
Cartridge Section
Type	Plug-in connector MM type stereo cartridge
Exchange needle	EPS-P205ED4(¥15,000)
<General>
Pwer	100 VAC, 50Hz/60Hz
Power consumption	22W
External dimensions	Width 526x Height 202x Depth 426 mm
Weight	13.5kg

I also have a DUAL 1229 that I am quite happy with (with a custom American Walnut plinth):
Audio Database

• Dual 1229​

• Price unknown (cabinet sold separately, around the early 1970 s?)

Commentary​

A turntable incorporating manual / automatic functions and operability into the design criteria of a professional-grade turntable.

The 1229 offers four playback modes : a manual turntable, a single-play turntable that automatically plays a single record, a multi-play turntable that automatically plays six consecutive records, and repeat play.

In manual play, the tone arm returns automatically and the turntable stops rotating when the play is finished. In single play, it starts with one action of the start switch. When it stops, it returns automatically and the turntable stops as in manual play.
In automatic multi-play, a single play spindle is replaced with a multi-play spindle, and six records are set on top of each other. After that, if you press the start switch, all of them operate automatically. After six consecutive playing is finished, it returns automatically and the turntable stops rotating.
Repeat Play is a mode that uses a multi-play spindle and 45-turn donut adapter to play the same record repeatedly.

The spindle for single play is designed to rotate together with the turntable, and there is no uneven rotation caused by frictional resistance between the center hole of the record and the spindle.

We have adopted die-cast turntables.
There is a 50/60Hz strobe on the back of the turntable, which can be monitored with a strobe mirror on the panel. By rotating the ring, you can adjust the angle for easy viewing, and you can easily switch between 50 Hz and 60 Hz.

The pitch control adjusts the speed by ± 6%.

A newly designed synchronous continuous pole motor is used as the drive motor.


The tone arm is made of a light metal pipe with an effective length of 222 mm. This was the longest design for an auto turntable type player at that time. The tracking error is 1 ° 30 "for a record diameter of 110 to 293 mm. The resonance is between 8 and 14 Hz, below the audible frequency, and is designed to be higher than the lowest resonance frequency of the 1229 chassis suspension of 4.8 Hz when the cartridge is installed.
The support is a gyro-gimbal type support structure that Dual adopted for the first time as an auto turntable type player. This system uses high-precision miniature bearings for the support points of two inner and outer rings. By improving the sensitivity of the tone arm, it is also compatible with four channel record playback of a discrete method.

The anti-skating mechanism corresponds to the needle pressure and the type of needle tip. It is a dial system with red letters as elliptical needles and white letters as conical needles.

The needle pressure can be adjusted by turning the dial. The error of the direct reading value is within ± 0.1g. When the needle pressure of 3g to 5g is applied, it can be adjusted by rotating the counterweight. One rotation can adjust the needle pressure by 0.5g.
1229 is used with a needle pressure of 0.25g or more.

The counterweight part has a weight and a shaft pre-assembled, and the weight is dumped to the shaft via a rubber shock absorber to absorb resonance and shock of the arm.
In addition, when adjusting the 0 balance, this counterweight can be approximately balanced at the front and rear of the whole including the shaft, and by further rotating the counterweight it can be accurately balanced.

Equipped with a mode selector, an accurate vertical angle can be obtained.
With auto-turntable, the vertical angle differs between single-play and multi-play. With 1229, you can obtain an accurate vertical angle by changing the height of the supporting point of the tone arm with the mode selector. With multi-play, it becomes 15 degrees when playing the third record.
This mode selector also has a safety lock function and is designed so that when the multi-play spindle is installed, the automatic mechanism does not operate unless it is in the multi-play position.

The head shell is die-cast and the cartridge holder conforms to the EIA standard and is compatible with most commercially available cartridges.
The cartridge holder can be easily attached and detached by moving the finger of the head back and forth.

It is equipped with queue control (arm elevation mechanism) using Viscos dump cylinder.


There were 3 types of player cabinet as an option sold separately.
The CK-20/CH-20 is an original player case made by Dual. The front side of the base can be opened and closed, and spare shells, 45 adapters, multi-spindles, etc. can be stored. In addition, the acrylic cover can be fully opened on the upper side, and the front half can be opened and closed with a special acrylic hinge. In addition, the special hinge is detachable so that it can be used with the cover on during multi-play.
DB-31/DCOV-3 is a case made in Japan similar to the original. The front of the base can be opened and closed, and spare shells and multi-spindles can be stored inside. In addition, the acrylic cover can be detached with a special hinge, and it can be played with the cover in multi-play.
DB-3/DCOV-3 is a standard type case and has the same dimensions and finish as DB-31, but the storage spacer is omitted.

• 
  
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Model Rating​

Type	Record player
Turntable	30.5 cm non-magnetic die cast, 3.1 kg Fully dynamic balanced
Drive motor	Synchronous continuous pole motor
Speed	33 1/3, 45, 78 rpm
Pitch control	Each speed 6% (about half tone)
Wow and flutter	Not more than 0.06% (according to DIN45 507)
Rumble (according to DIN45500)	-42dB -63dB
Tone arm	Extra Long Pipe Arm
Tone arm support	4-point gimbal
Tracking error	1.5 degrees or less
Tone arm angle (by cartridge)	Horizontal : 0.015g or less Vertical : not more than 0.007g
Cartridge mounting	With a detachable special shell (1 ~ 12g cartridge attachable)
Needle pressure adjustment	Direct Reading Dial, 0 ~ 3g Variable (Up to 5.5g Possible)
Anti-skating	Direct-Reading Dial with Conical / Elliptical Needle
Queue control	Silicone oil dump type
Strobe light	Neon-reflecting strobe (For 33 1/3, 45 rpm)
Pwer	AC110/220V, Switch Switching 50Hz/60Hz, replacement of motor pulley
Power consumption	Approx. 10W
External dimensions	Width 376x Height 26 (Counter Weight Part) x Depth 308 mm
Weight	7.2kg
Attachment	Single play spindle Multi-play spindle 45 Rotation Donut Board Adapter
Sold Separately	Dual Case / Cover CK-20/CH-20 (¥ 27,000) Domestic Case / Cover DB-31 (¥ 5,600) / DCOV-3 (¥ 4,300) Domestic Case / Cover DB-3 (¥ 3,400) / DCOV-3 (¥ 4,300) Spare Head Shell TK-14 (¥ 1,200) Donut Multi-Play Spindle AS-12 (¥ 1,800)

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• 

My 1229 had the flip-down front with storage for spindles, spare pickups and so on and also the sliding cover. I'm missing it more and more these days...



Attempting to play some mid 60s eps with a modern if humble pickup (Ortofon OM10 @ 1.5g) proved a total disaster, the contamination in the very shallow grooves causing much noise and 'sticking' unless the bias correction was removed. My more suitable Garrard AT60 with Stanton 500A is in the loft and it's too hot to go and fetch it down. i should compromise maybe in this second rig and use the ton-up Dual 1214 with Rega Carbon cartridge or an AT95E with these records (it'll happily take far better, but the styli on these cheapie pickups are perhaps fractionally better suited to these old mono records -

Morale of this exercise is that the BEST upgrade any owner of a half decent turntable can make, is to get a proper wet-n-dry record cleaning machine, especially if like me, one has many 50s and 60s records left in not-so-good storage for decades unplayed!!!

 

[mike70]

Properly cleaning the records transformed my experience with vinyl ... absolutely.
And ... we never had access to high quality stylus cuts at budget prices like today (never).

These 2 facts elevate vinyl reproduction over what we know about it in 70s / 80s ... today vinyl isn't your granpa vinyl.

 

[Newman]

... we never had access to high quality stylus cuts at budget prices like today (never).

These 2 facts elevate vinyl reproduction over what we know about it in 70s / 80s ... today vinyl isn't your granpa vinyl.

But aren't people posting in ASR about how all the fancy stylus profiles and even better cantilever materials were available back then?