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The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

A record weight has made a difference in only one of my three turntables. For me, it’s a roll of the dice it what it contributes.
Spindle clamps by themselves consistently keep the record from slipping while cleaning. When I add the outer ring - something changes that makes me smile. The only measurement I have is speed consistency via the Waxwing app - it seems to measure closer to what I set when doing random checks. I did have to crank the speed pot up a bit with all the extra weight to get back to 33.3 - measured this morning and got 33.1 RPM - pretty good for a DC motor table without a feedback control loop. All good fun which will get even better when I mount a second cartridge on the extra headshell. Either the Denon 103 or Maestro 2 is up next.
 
The weight is worth having if for no other reason it holds the record in place while you clean it with your dust brush. I have gone back to the inner and outer clamps similar to what I had on my Merrill Heirloom table. They flatten out minor imperfections and add 3 pounds or so to the rotating mass - both good things.
There are a bunch of swings and roundabouts to this one...

Increasing weight will alter the resonant frequency of the TT stand (all of it, from the ground through to the platter, regardless of whether the TT is a suspended design or not!)...

Whether this is for the better or worse, will depend on the stand, the turntable suspension and even the floor it is on (whether it is a concrete slab, or traditional floorboards...)

There is no simple answer as to whether it will improve things or not - in different cases it will go in different directions!

Then there is the additional weight on the platter bearings - this is almost always a negative - some TT's are sufficiently heavily engineered (over-engineered?) - to shrug off the additional weight, others aren't...

One alternative (which I use) is to use a lightweight clamp rather than a massive weight - the end result can be well nigh identical without affecting resonant frequency or platter bearings.

Finally - yes something that pushes the record down onto the platter surface/mat is especially useful for records that have slight warps and this flattens them - it can also affect the damping of the turntable mat itself (which may be a positive or a negative, and will vary depending on too many variables to review).

I am NOT saying don't use a weight or clamp - But if you are going to add substantial mass to your TT system, you should consider what it might do to the various resonances and springing/damping of your entire TT system.

People really should have a go at measuring the resonances that get transmitted and/or damped through their entire TT system... best way is to stop the TT motor, and (GENTLY) lower the needle on the platter surface... then measure what comes through when you stomp around the room, or play some music loudly.... it will quickly show up the resonances that come through vs the ones that get damped... adding mass or adjusting (firming or softening) the springing of the entire system, or adding various sorts of absorbing/damping mechanisms, will alter these... and you can measure them.

One of my TT's was well nigh unuseable on my old style floorboards... (the suspended ones were fine, the solid platform ones did very badly indeed!) - until I added mass (60cm x 60cm concrete pad... serious mass!), sorbothane layers (damping and springing - both under the concrete pad, and under the feet of the rack) to the platform (rack) - after which the two types of TT's ended up much of a muchness... It wasn't expensive in the end, and along the way I did experiment with some of the more expensive options (mag-lev)
 
There are a bunch of swings and roundabouts to this one...

Increasing weight will alter the resonant frequency of the TT stand (all of it, from the ground through to the platter, regardless of whether the TT is a suspended design or not!)...

Whether this is for the better or worse, will depend on the stand, the turntable suspension and even the floor it is on (whether it is a concrete slab, or traditional floorboards...)

There is no simple answer as to whether it will improve things or not - in different cases it will go in different directions!

Then there is the additional weight on the platter bearings - this is almost always a negative - some TT's are sufficiently heavily engineered (over-engineered?) - to shrug off the additional weight, others aren't...

One alternative (which I use) is to use a lightweight clamp rather than a massive weight - the end result can be well nigh identical without affecting resonant frequency or platter bearings.

Finally - yes something that pushes the record down onto the platter surface/mat is especially useful for records that have slight warps and this flattens them - it can also affect the damping of the turntable mat itself (which may be a positive or a negative, and will vary depending on too many variables to review).

I am NOT saying don't use a weight or clamp - But if you are going to add substantial mass to your TT system, you should consider what it might do to the various resonances and springing/damping of your entire TT system.

People really should have a go at measuring the resonances that get transmitted and/or damped through their entire TT system... best way is to stop the TT motor, and (GENTLY) lower the needle on the platter surface... then measure what comes through when you stomp around the room, or play some music loudly.... it will quickly show up the resonances that come through vs the ones that get damped... adding mass or adjusting (firming or softening) the springing of the entire system, or adding various sorts of absorbing/damping mechanisms, will alter these... and you can measure them.

One of my TT's was well nigh unuseable on my old style floorboards... (the suspended ones were fine, the solid platform ones did very badly indeed!) - until I added mass (60cm x 60cm concrete pad... serious mass!), sorbothane layers (damping and springing - both under the concrete pad, and under the feet of the rack) to the platform (rack) - after which the two types of TT's ended up much of a muchness... It wasn't expensive in the end, and along the way I did experiment with some of the more expensive options (mag-lev)
My clear audio table has the ceramic magnetic bearing. This means the sub platter and the platter are floating on a magnetic field with no direct contact to the top of the inverted bearing. It's a solid plinth and is not susceptible to added weight. My floors are concrete as well.
 
My clear audio table has the ceramic magnetic bearing. This means the sub platter and the platter are floating on a magnetic field with no direct contact to the top of the inverted bearing. It's a solid plinth and is not susceptible to added weight. My floors are concrete as well.
So in your case, probably no bearing issues... but as you add weight to the magnetic "spring" you shift the resonant frequency downwards... Mag-Lev behaves exactly like a spring... (yep I did play with mag-lev footers... didn't work in my case)

From memory... (yeah I should check that) the danger zone for resonance is around 2Hz to 5Hz - which is where things like "footfall" but also things like road noise rumble reside... if the resonant frequency is above (or below) that then things stay "happy".

I was suffering badly from footfall issues right in that zone, and had to adjust my setup to move the resonant frequency and to increase vibration absorbance (sorbothane converts a proportion of the vibration to heat... )
 
I got a Record Weight today from Audio Technica. Wasn’t sure if it would make a difference at all but I believe it does indeed improve things a bit. But could be my imagination.
I use a Michell clamp. I like the fact that it weighs almost nothing, yet has a greater flattening effect than most weights.
 
I did only read a clamp would pull the spindle up on a direct drive turntable and that would be worse for the bearing. But I’m no expert :-)

My weight has like 600g I think that should be no issue for a technics especially if I start the platter by hand first before pushing start.
 
I did only read a clamp would pull the spindle up on a direct drive turntable and that would be worse for the bearing.
I expect that the pull up on the spindle is matched by the push down on the platter, thus zero effect on the bearing.
 
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Aluminum platters and rubber mats goes very well ... trust in Technics engineering since the 70s.
They had right in many other things (direct drive, quartz lock, etc).
Sometime an old rubber mat may dry out and stiffen, losing its vibration absorbing ability. A replacement could help in that instance.
 
Sometime an old rubber mat may dry out and stiffen, losing its vibration absorbing ability. A replacement could help in that instance.

Anything outside functional parameters will degrade the performance. I mean, you're right, but obviously I was talking about a mat in good shape.
 
Update on the Sorane arm. When I set up the Waxwing with the Satisfy Carbon arm the Bass Boost feature was turned on for a bit of extra bass from the Hana. The Bass Boost is no longer needed with the new arm. On paper the effective mass seems high for the Hana, but in practice the bass is significantly better. The other thing that stands out is dynamics have more "impact". No measurements to back this up except my ears with records I have heard many times. Same VTF, same VTA, same cartridge. Only thing different is the tonearm. I did not expect this much difference. My main goal was a bit higher mass and detachable headshells - got that and then some.
 
My Michell Gyro SE is a suspended design , resonance is 3.7Hz . Dancing by was impossible on the wooden flood in my previous house from 1985. In the 100+ years old apartment I live in now it is not a problem ( brick and massive wooden floor with new footfall soundproofing below new oak floor top
) Arm cartridge resonance is 8 hz. But I can still see footfalls if I analyse a single tone or silent track recording. But with the steep rumble filter of the RIAA on it is not a problem.


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My CA TRS-1007 test record has a bump that triggers the arm resonance once every revolution. Clearly seen when rumble filter if off/5hz
 
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Anyone wanting any Hana cartridge - today is the last day of the 20% off sale......
 
So, now that I have a detachable headshell, I ordered an AT VM95SH with the AT 9 gram headshell. I am curious as to how an inexpensive MM with Shibata will compare to my Hana SL - Shibata also. If it is not much difference then I will have a cartridge with a replaceable stylus for a change! First AT ever!

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So, now that I have a detachable headshell, I ordered an AT VM95SH with the AT 9 gram headshell. I am curious as to how an inexpensive MM with Shibata will compare to my Hana SL - Shibata also. If it is not much difference then I will have a cartridge with a replaceable stylus for a change! First AT ever!

Generally, a line contact stylus will trace the groove better than other facets. As far as how the A/T will compare with your Hana? Spend the dollars and find out. It's the only way you will know for sure. A/T bodies allow multiple stylus type plug-ins, so you can easily experiment.

FWIW, I have two A/T MM cartridges (440ML and 740ML) both using a Microline diamond, a more 'advanced' cut than the Shibata. IMO both are quite good, overall. One thing: A/T MM have a rising FR, probably more noticeable with the discontinued 440. Don't know about the VM95.
 
Generally, a line contact stylus will trace the groove better than other facets. As far as how the A/T will compare with your Hana? Spend the dollars and find out. It's the only way you will know for sure. A/T bodies allow multiple stylus type plug-ins, so you can easily experiment.

FWIW, I have two A/T MM cartridges (440ML and 740ML) both using a Microline diamond, a more 'advanced' cut than the Shibata. IMO both are quite good, overall. One thing: A/T MM have a rising FR, probably more noticeable with the discontinued 440. Don't know about the VM95.
I already ordered one to test. Curiously, AT charges more for the Shibata than Microline. In any case, I wanted the same profile for comparison with the Hana.
 
The VM95 series does have a cruder internal system than the VM500 and up bodies which I believe have better inter-channel shielding and posher wires, the 740 and 760 a metallic mount which may help with some more 'lively' tonearms.. I don't know the 95SH but did install a 95ML and loved the rather raw sense of 'life' it brought to proceedings.

Judging by the German Lowbeats site tests (when they measured as well as posted soundbites - not sure they do for the more recent reviews they've done), the 95Shibata used these days, offers a touch more refinement up top over the crisper ML. I also was able to do an online comparison with the OC9 styli they offer, again, the SH having greater sense of hf refinement and less 'one note tinsel' as the ML version had in comparison.
 
I already ordered one to test. Curiously, AT charges more for the Shibata than Microline.

Everyone does. It's because (I'm guessing but I think it is the case) of what Obray (Adamant/Namiki) charges their customers for diamonds. Last time I looked the Microline was volume priced lower than the three Shibata variants. Why is that? Beats me. Are they paying JVC royalties at this late stage? Wasn't JVC the company that originally came up with the Shibata facet for their 4-channel discrete records.

You'd think the Microline (or Microridge) would be more expensive than the others, since it seems to be a more 'involved' cut.

 
Im Also interested in the AT95 SH (200€) or ML (180€) as upgrade from my Ortofon Red for a Technics SL1500C :-)

I play mostly Jazz LPs and the majority are old used but At least VG+ Japanese releases.
 
Im Also interested in the AT95 SH (200€) or ML (180€) as upgrade from my Ortofon Red for a Technics SL1500C :-)

I play mostly Jazz LPs and the majority are old used but At least VG+ Japanese releases.

I had the ortofon blue (better than the red) and changed for the vm540ml ... no regrets at all. Better tracking/details.
 
Everyone does. It's because (I'm guessing but I think it is the case) of what Obray (Adamant/Namiki) charges their customers for diamonds. Last time I looked the Microline was volume priced lower than the three Shibata variants. Why is that? Beats me. Are they paying JVC royalties at this late stage? Wasn't JVC the company that originally came up with the Shibata facet for their 4-channel discrete records.

You'd think the Microline (or Microridge) would be more expensive than the others, since it seems to be a more 'involved' cut.

Hana charges $1200 for their Microline versus $750 for Shibata.
 
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