The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

[Bob from Florida]

Just got word from Shannon Parks, my Waxwing is on the way for a Thursday arrival! IOS app on my phone anxiously awaiting an opportunity to connect.

 

[Balle Clorin]

So I just measured my wow/flutter with and without a record using RPM WOW. Three measurements each with the record on the turntable and one without. Lifting and placing the phone back on between each measurement. Without it is .05, .05, .08. With it is .05, .05, .04. (RMS). My guess is that the needle doesn't make enough of a difference to be registered by the phone/app. There is no evidence that music is causing swings larger than .1. Is there any evidence that the needle causes significant drag to be heard? Do you know where the .1 figure for audibility came from? Thanks!

I have posted Shaknspin plots her they show the effect of stylus drag. With the stylus lifted speed is 0.05rpm faster than when in the Groove with music. Beltdrive TT with DC motor That speed variation is 0.15% wich corresponds to a not so good turntable . (The platter is 3.5kg . ) Beltdrives should maybe therefore be AC driven and with very heavy platters I guess. Or use a DD if you want. I have both DD and BeltDC

 

[Balle Clorin]

Just got word from Shannon Parks, my Waxwing is on the way for a Thursday arrival! IOS app on my phone anxiously awaiting an opportunity to connect.

I though IPhone app was coming later…

 

[Balle Clorin]

Anyone here has experience using Shaknspin to get data on how a TT is performing?

see my posts in "fun with vinyl measurements"

 

[Bob from Florida]

I though IPhone app was coming later…

Shannon got the IOS out Monday. You should download it- astonishing what can be adjusted, plus a speed check that relies on the run out groove click. If it matches the ifi Zen for low hum and sound quality, I will be very happy.

 

[dlaloum]

I have posted Shaknspin plots her they show the effect of stylus drag. With the stylus lifted speed is 0.05rpm faster than when in the Groove with music. Beltdrive TT with DC motor That speed variation is 0.15% wich corresponds to a not so good turntable . (The platter is 3.5kg . ) Beltdrives should maybe therefore be AC driven and with very heavy platters I guess. Or use a DD if you want. I have both DD and BeltDC

GruvGlide or Last vinyl treatments both include lubricants in their mix.... from memory (of a VE thread I was on 10 years ago) - these have a measurable impact on stylus drag.

I do not recall the formula for GruvGlide, but someone with a chemist background (and access to a lab) did do some analysis of LAST, the lubricant is Fomblin.... which unfortunately is prohibitively expensive in normal commercial quantities.... However, old fashioned Armorall protectant vinyl treatment, also works well as a lubricant... (yes, apply in VERY small amounts....)

The lubricants also have an interesting side effect of migrating under otherwise unmovable embedded grit, and cleaning the record a couple of days after a lubricant treatment will often release grit that otherwise seems unmovable.
So if doing archival work, you end up with a cleaning routine that looks like: 1) Base clean, with enzymatic cleaner (to also remove any funguses etc...) followed by ultrasonic, 2) Lubricating treatment, 3) Final clean with ultrasonic...

It takes a lot of elbow grease and time... but results do include elimination of many vinyl pops/clicks, reduced stylus drag, and increased longevity of both stylus and records.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Waxwing in the system! Just as quiet as the ifi Zen and the adjustability using the app is amazing. Hana SL set for 60 db, 200 ohms, 20 HZ cutoff, Bass boost on - other settings yet to be explored. Listening to Dave Brubek "Time Out" - simply stunning.
Very nice product so far

 

[Buck_Rogers]

Okay, first topic I would like to discuss - moving coil demagnetizers. I bought one of these many years ago after getting my first moving coil - http://www.aesthetix.net/demagnetizer.php . If you go to the link and read the description, it seems the validity of the product hinges on the coils being wound on ferrous material that would become magnetic from exposure to the cartridge magnetic field. Flux busting this core material would, in theory, keep coil motion free from magnetic interference and result in some audible difference. Now, I think I can hear “something” whenever I use my demagnetizer. Perhaps more “air” in the playback, but I could be imagining this. So, how to verify with test gear on hand. My Hana SL has never been flux busted and I have been using it for close to a year and it sat unused for 2 years prior to me purchasing it - should be ready to flux bust for maximum effect. What I propose is to play a pink noise track and use the spectrum analyzer on my iPhone to listen at a set location and volume from the loudspeaker. Next, I flux bust and play same track and capture another sample. No change in position or volume. Before I do this - only get one chance without waiting weeks or months - comments on my proposed test on how to improve accuracy are welcome.

As a side note, I ran across this product while researching this topic - https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-coil/at-art1000 - a moving coil with “air coils”. Seems like it would be never in need of flux busting. Not your usual cheap Audio-Technica by a long shot!

View attachment 207712

Every 6 months or so I use my "Cardas Sweep & Burn In LP".

Played for visitors it's always a jaw dropping experience.

The next day Cardas sells a few more.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Every 6 months or so I use my "Cardas Sweep & Burn In LP".

Played for visitors it's always a jaw dropping experience.

The next day Cardas sells a few more.

That’s what I call a “fancy living“ turntable!

 

[Balle Clorin]

Every 6 months or so I use my "Cardas Sweep & Burn In LP".

Played for visitors it's always a jaw dropping experience.

The next day Cardas sells a few more.

Puzzled that you say that, I have got 15+ test records and Cardas test record is quite poor I never use it. Poor centering and a faulty frequency sweep that is highly distorted , Azimuth is not good, pink noise does nothing more than music does for a cartridge. The label strobes are off center. it is at the bottom of my list together with the HifiNews test record. The anti-skate setting on a blank surface is the wrong method. No test record is perfect and does it all, but Cardas does not get my recommendation.

 

[egellings]

Okay, first topic I would like to discuss - moving coil demagnetizers. I bought one of these many years ago after getting my first moving coil - http://www.aesthetix.net/demagnetizer.php . If you go to the link and read the description, it seems the validity of the product hinges on the coils being wound on ferrous material that would become magnetic from exposure to the cartridge magnetic field. Flux busting this core material would, in theory, keep coil motion free from magnetic interference and result in some audible difference. Now, I think I can hear “something” whenever I use my demagnetizer. Perhaps more “air” in the playback, but I could be imagining this. So, how to verify with test gear on hand. My Hana SL has never been flux busted and I have been using it for close to a year and it sat unused for 2 years prior to me purchasing it - should be ready to flux bust for maximum effect. What I propose is to play a pink noise track and use the spectrum analyzer on my iPhone to listen at a set location and volume from the loudspeaker. Next, I flux bust and play same track and capture another sample. No change in position or volume. Before I do this - only get one chance without waiting weeks or months - comments on my proposed test on how to improve accuracy are welcome.

As a side note, I ran across this product while researching this topic - https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-coil/at-art1000 - a moving coil with “air coils”. Seems like it would be never in need of flux busting. Not your usual cheap Audio-Technica by a long shot!

View attachment 207712

Tip mass could be a bit high on that.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Waxwing update. Got around to trying the optical digital output at 96 KHZ by 24 bits to the optical input on my Schiit Modius. Sounds great, not sure if any better than the internal Waxwing DAC but excellent nonetheless. Next up is to get the optical to USB adapter to test rip to computer. So far, I can highly recommend this phono preamp.

 

[MattHooper]

Every 6 months or so I use my "Cardas Sweep & Burn In LP".

Played for visitors it's always a jaw dropping experience.

The next day Cardas sells a few more.

Dayum! That's beautiful! I love the copper look!

 

[Bob from Florida]

Final upgrade to Performance DC turntable! Problem - Satisfy arm has low effective mass- 7 grams- and headshell not removable. Solution - put a different tonearm on table. Not quite so easy because Clearaudio does not make it easy as their arms use a 24.8 mm arm pilar. Not exactly a standard. Have Clearaudio or machine shop make you something custom or DIY. Solution - Sorane SA-1.2B tonearm with 20 mm arm pillar in concert with McMaster Carr 20-25 mm sleeve bearing 50 mm long. Machine outside of bearing down using oscillating spindle sander until it fits the Clearaudio VTA Lifter base. Drill and tap sleeve for short 3 mm set screw. Install sleeve to 20 mm arm pillar, install arm to table, work out preliminary adjustments, and install Hana SL to first headshell. Play some tunes and call it a day. More bass for sure with this arm.

 

[Newman]

Nice project, Bob

 

[Snoopy]

I got a Record Weight today from Audio Technica. Wasn’t sure if it would make a difference at all but I believe it does indeed improve things a bit. But could be my imagination.

Not sure if I should get a Acrylic Mat or something else for my Technics or just keep the standard mat.

 

[mike70]

Aluminum platters and rubber mats goes very well ... trust in Technics engineering since the 70s.
They had right in many other things (direct drive, quartz lock, etc).

 

[Angsty]

The main benefit of a rubber mat is that it damps noise from the motor and/or platter bearing. I’ve seen as much as a 3dB reduction in noise.

 

[Bob from Florida]

I got a Record Weight today from Audio Technica. Wasn’t sure if it would make a difference at all but I believe it does indeed improve things a bit. But could be my imagination.

Not sure if I should get a Acrylic Mat or something else for my Technics or just keep the standard mat.View attachment 336121

The weight is worth having if for no other reason it holds the record in place while you clean it with your dust brush. I have gone back to the inner and outer clamps similar to what I had on my Merrill Heirloom table. They flatten out minor imperfections and add 3 pounds or so to the rotating mass - both good things.

 

[Angsty]

The weight is worth having if for no other reason it holds the record in place while you clean it with your dust brush. I have gone back to the inner and outer clamps similar to what I had on my Merrill Heirloom table. They flatten out minor imperfections and add 3 pounds or so to the rotating mass - both good things.

A record weight has made a difference in only one of my three turntables. For me, it’s a roll of the dice in what it contributes.