The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

[morillon]

There is no need for that here to see that your statement is false...
"a ton""...
P.S. The pitch used by American orchestras is a bit lower (like a440 Hz) than that of European ones ( like a442/444), but we're a long way off from a whole tone... hehe... a long way...
(I invite you to compare this excerpt from Thomas A. with its CD version, which is easy to find.)
And as Thomas-A showed you, you can rest assured about the precision of its LP speed... correct..
;-)

 

[Thomas_A]

Been listening to the Spotify version, and cannot find pitch differences. But there is distortion heard from the vinyl record, and a bit less clarity. But I was not expecting anything else. Those brass crescendos in the end are quite a challenge. We will see what the stylus made to those tracks...in a while.

 

[Thomas_A]

Perhaps known already, but this was very unexpected from Swedish Teenage Engineering. Flo Kaufmann seems to be involved as well.

APC–2

a professional record cutter built and designed for producing original playback vinyl with superior sound quality in real time.

teenage.engineering

 

[dougi]

Perhaps known already, but this was very unexpected from Swedish Teenage Engineering. Flo Kaufmann seems to be involved as well.

APC–2

a professional record cutter built and designed for producing original playback vinyl with superior sound quality in real time.

teenage.engineering

Wow. I just bought their little headphones for work vidcon duties.

 

[goat76]

Perhaps known already, but this was very unexpected from Swedish Teenage Engineering. Flo Kaufmann seems to be involved as well.

APC–2

a professional record cutter built and designed for producing original playback vinyl with superior sound quality in real time.

teenage.engineering

When a manufacturer like them (who I think has mostly been focusing on modern product segments) introduces a professional record cutter, I think it is an indication that the vinyl record market has become quite an important segment again in the music industry. Otherwise, it wouldn't make much sense, as it can't be that easy to compete against the few deeply established manufacturers in a niche market.

 

[morillon]

In my country, I get the impression that the trend is actually on the wane.
(and observed among retailers...)

 

[Cote Dazur]

I have a lot in common with the men in that video, I would be grateful to have a friend like him. I thought that maybe some of you would appreciate seeing this video.

 

[Shotgun Rico]

If you go to the Soundsmith link I posted a few replies prior to this, Peter does a decent job explaining things.
I used to use a test record with the 4 tracks of increasing modulation and make heroic efforts to get the 4th track compensated. This would result in too much anti-skate pulling the stylus out as it cued to track one. When I went to "just enough" anti-skate to keep the stylus barely ahead of the spiral into locked runout groove, everything seemed more "balanced". Neutral cueing at beginning and nothing "radical" in or out across the record. Plus, this can be done without any test gear!

I’ve been using this method from the link you gave and so far so good. I appreciate the explanations from the videos. Thanks again

 

[gzost]

When a manufacturer like them (who I think has mostly been focusing on modern product segments) introduces a professional record cutter, I think it is an indication that the vinyl record market has become quite an important segment again in the music industry. Otherwise, it wouldn't make much sense, as it can't be that easy to compete against the few deeply established manufacturers in a niche market

AFAIK no new cutting lathes have been manufactured for decades, so they may well be the only game on town.

 

[goat76]

AFAIK no new cutting lathes have been manufactured for decades, so they may well be the only game on town.

That may be the case, and if so, it’s possible they maybe just happened to read what the market needs, and what current modern new technology could be used to make things better versus the old tech.

 

[AndyMorris]

Perhaps known already, but this was very unexpected from Swedish Teenage Engineering. Flo Kaufmann seems to be involved as well.

APC–2

a professional record cutter built and designed for producing original playback vinyl with superior sound quality in real time.

teenage.engineering

Does this cut dub plates ( acetates) or masters for pressing plants?

 

[goat76]

I have noticed that my subwoofers move a lot with some of my vinyl records, so I decided to use a subsonic filter available in my Linn Akurate DSM.
I set the filter quite low at 12 Hz because Linn recommends setting it somewhere between 7 and 12 Hz for a full-range system, and it has definitely calmed down the subwoofers.

At what frequency do you set your subsonic filter in your systems?

 

[Labhound]

I have noticed that my subwoofers move a lot with some of my vinyl records, so I decided to use a subsonic filter available in my Linn Akurate DSM.
I set the filter quite low at 12 Hz because Linn recommends setting it somewhere between 7 and 12 Hz for a full-range system, and it has definitely calmed down the subwoofers.

At what frequency do you set your subsonic filter in your systems?

My Cambridge Audio Duo subsonic filter is set at -3dB @ 15Hz 12dB/octave from the factory.

 

[mike70]

I have noticed that my subwoofers move a lot with some of my vinyl records, so I decided to use a subsonic filter available in my Linn Akurate DSM.
I set the filter quite low at 12 Hz because Linn recommends setting it somewhere between 7 and 12 Hz for a full-range system, and it has definitely calmed down the subwoofers.

At what frequency do you set your subsonic filter in your systems?

in my opinion depends on the order of the filter ... a first order filter (6dB) needs to be higher, closer to 20hz

 

[Robin L]

 

[dougi]

INSTALLED PRO-JECT EVO AS 10" ON MUSIC HALL STEALTH TT

Throwing good Money after bad?
I finally got too annoyed with the tonearm on the Stealth, with cart realignment being required after every VTA adjust, and now a bearing being loose despite the locking nuts being superglued at the factory. So I removed it, which required minor desoldering of the tonearm wires and removal of a connector that must be used for the end-of-record stop switch.

Anyway, not much available in the market as reasonable cost for a detachable headshell tonearm that would fit, so I ordered a PRO-JECT EVO AS 10" in black, then prayed, given there are no instructions online or even when I asked the distributor.
When received, still no instructions and just a generic PRO-JECT drilling template. From the off, the height of the tonearm looked like it would be too high, but difficult to tell.

So I measured, remeasured and started drilling. Which was a bit tricky, as I discovered the plinth has a 6-7mm layer of aluminium on top of MDF substrate. Nice, but made things more difficult! After much swearing it ended up OK, with a basic holesaw being able to do the main pillar hole. Basically a Linn mount so three M5 other holes to fix the collar. I had to get some 50mm M5 bolts as the provided ones would only have been useful with an arm board.

Pivot to spindle distance (238mm) ended up spot on. VTA and pillar is held by two grub screws in the collar. However, the arm rest assembly is quite heavy and there is some play in the pillar when tightening the grub screws. Hence you need to check level of bearing housing when tightening.

Yes, tonearm is very high, partly due to the massive baring collar. Not helping is that there is no rebate in the collar for the bottom of the arm lift, so I removed the arm lift to lower by a few mm, but still too high so will need to shim carts. At some point I may try to track down a slimmer collar with a rebate, such as those used on some other PRO-JECT cc tonearms.
Photos below after arm lift removal. Arm rest uses a magnet. You can see the mount for where the old VTA tower is in the background.

 

[Bob from Florida]

INSTALLED PRO-JECT EVO AS 10" ON MUSIC HALL STEALTH TT

Throwing good Money after bad?
I finally got too annoyed with the tonearm on the Stealth, with cart realignment being required after every VTA adjust, and now a bearing being loose despite the locking nuts being superglued at the factory. So I removed it, which required minor desoldering of the tonearm wires and removal of a connector that must be used for the end-of-record stop switch.

Anyway, not much available in the market as reasonable cost for a detachable headshell tonearm that would fit, so I ordered a PRO-JECT EVO AS 10" in black, then prayed, given there are no instructions online or even when I asked the distributor.
When received, still no instructions and just a generic PRO-JECT drilling template. From the off, the height of the tonearm looked like it would be too high, but difficult to tell.

So I measured, remeasured and started drilling. Which was a bit tricky, as I discovered the plinth has a 6-7mm layer of aluminium on top of MDF substrate. Nice, but made things more difficult! After much swearing it ended up OK, with a basic holesaw being able to do the main pillar hole. Basically a Linn mount so three M5 other holes to fix the collar. I had to get some 50mm M5 bolts as the provided ones would only have been useful with an arm board.

Pivot to spindle distance (238mm) ended up spot on. VTA and pillar is held by two grub screws in the collar. However, the arm rest assembly is quite heavy and there is some play in the pillar when tightening the grub screws. Hence you need to check level of bearing housing when tightening.

Yes, tonearm is very high, partly due to the massive baring collar. Not helping is that there is no rebate in the collar for the bottom of the arm lift, so I removed the arm lift to lower by a few mm, but still too high so will need to shim carts. At some point I may try to track down a slimmer collar with a rebate, such as those used on some other PRO-JECT cc tonearms.
Photos below after arm lift removal. Arm rest uses a magnet. You can see the mount for where the old VTA tower is in the background.
View attachment 551986
View attachment 551987

Anti-skate with hanging weights? Didn’t see it in your pictures. It looks like your collar base has enough space under the grub screws so it can be dropped into the plinth some if you machine away some of the top of the plinth. Test this theory by measuring the thickness below the grub screws and stack some notepad pieces to equal to this measurement on top of a record. Queue your needle on top of the stack - no spinning of platter - and check tonearm for level. If level or angle down towards pivot, then this will work. It will be a lot of work to mill out the top of the plinth some or you could get a thicker mat or cartridge shims. You could also consider moving the tonearm lift mechanism out to the next hole - might need to enlarge it and drill/tap for adjustment set screw. You’ve come this far, may as well continue table modifications until happy or something gets destroyed.

 

[dougi]

Anti-skate with hanging weights? Didn’t see it in your pictures. It looks like your collar base has enough space under the grub screws so it can be dropped into the plinth some if you machine away some of the top of the plinth. Test this theory by measuring the thickness below the grub screws and stack some notepad pieces to equal to this measurement on top of a record. Queue your needle on top of the stack - no spinning of platter - and check tonearm for level. If level or angle down towards pivot, then this will work. It will be a lot of work to mill out the top of the plinth some or you could get a thicker mat or cartridge shims. You could also consider moving the tonearm lift mechanism out to the next hole - might need to enlarge it and drill/tap for adjustment set screw. You’ve come this far, may as well continue table modifications until happy or something gets destroyed.

Yeah, anti-skate via hanging weight. Hangs off the back of the bearing collar so hidden in the photos. Thanks for the idea. I will see how I go with shims first. I imagine I would have to route it. I think the aluminium plate is removable as there are screws at the corners on the bottom of the plinth that likely hold it to the MDF.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Many, most?, people here, will think I should know better, I agree. I also think I should know better.
Still, I have to share this for the one, or 2?, that will understand.
Lately, as I am playing more records, on both my turntable, but particularely on my best one, I find myself more involve in the music I listen to. It does not sound "better", it is beyond that, it makes me connect better.
They are probably many good, objective reasons why, that have nothing to do with "vinyl" being better in any way.
I don't care why, or why it should not be, or if it cannot objectively be.
It is real to me, I love it, it makes me smile and tap my feet and even tap my hands some time. it makes me connect, like it used to and not so much with my other sources.
Happy I have a TT, happy I kept it and the vinyl to go with it, getting to be 70 in a few month and not feeling it at all when the LP12 is singing, Ivor was not that crazy after all, the source is where it is coming from.

 

[MattHooper]

Many, most?, people here, will think I should know better, I agree. I also think I should know better.
Still, I have to share this for the one, or 2?, that will understand.
Lately, as I am playing more records, on both my turntable, but particularely on my best one, I find myself more involve in the music I listen to. It does not sound "better", it is beyond that, it makes me connect better.
They are probably many good, objective reasons why, that have nothing to do with "vinyl" being better in any way.
I don't care why, or why it should not be, or if it cannot objectively be.
It is real to me, I love it, it makes me smile and tap my feet and even tap my hands some time. it makes me connect, like it used to and not so much with my other sources.
Happy I have a TT, happy I kept it and the vinyl to go with it, getting to be 70 in a few month and not feeling it at all when the LP12 is singing, Ivor was not that crazy after all, the source is where it is coming from.

Yup.

There’s more to life and music than the highest possible fidelity or accuracy.

There should be no apologies for this or squeamishness. It’s how human beings are built, to experience different priorities from one another.

For many of us, the choice between spinning records and other sources is not between
“ bad sound but more involvement” but rather “ not as high fidelity sound, but still capable of good sound, with the added vinyl-collecting/playing factors pushing the whole experience towards a high amount of pleasure playing records.”

It’s one reason why I still even seek out the physical vinyl copies of music I already own digitally.