• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

The Courteous Vinyl Playback Discussion

You could always try to find a wood plinth for your Technics - get the best of both worlds. ;)
KABUSA used to sell wood frames to give SL-1200s a traditional look. The plans are still on their site. Plans are free, but suggest a small donation.
 
I always thought I would go for a Linn if I bought a turntable, as my local HiFi store has been a long-running Linn dealer since 1985. It’s just that Linn’s turntables seem to be somewhat complicated to set up with the suspension for the chassis, and I don’t like the idea of having to rely on a dealer. It also seems to be an endless cycle of upgrades, and all these different parts are overwhelming for me as a vinyl beginner. It all looked so much simpler going for a direct-driven Technics, and I’m satisfied with that choice.

The Linn turntables are very beautiful machines, and I wouldn’t mind if my Technics looked like them as fine-looking furniture in my living room. Well, maybe someday… :)

View attachment 543281
Now that brings back memories! In the 1980s, I had a part-time job at a hifi dealer near the university I was attending, and I set up a number of LP12s exactly like the one in your photo. And the price seemed almost reasonable too, like 900 USD, including the Linn-branded Audio Technica cartridge. I always liked the grooved African teak bases - Linn used good kiln-dried hardwood.

LP12 setup isn't difficult, so much as fiddly (really helps to have a jig which facilitates suspension tuning), and if you followed factory recommendations closely, there were some small details to be observed, like torquing the armboard screws only until the lockwashers bit into the wood. Don't recall ever hearing a rep suggesting that we torque the cartridge down super tight, and I figure there's no point in doing so to the extent that the cartridge body deforms!

Wish they weren't such a pain to transport though.
 
Serves you right for tracking at 1g... :D

Solid plinth decks tend NOT to have much isolation in my experience, whether it be a Technics or a Rega (with everything else in between). Just be sensible here I think. My Rega 3-2000/RB300 still seems more vibration-sensitive with lid down (using iems as well, so not speakers). easy enoug for me to take the lid opff and carefully re-attach it after use.
One of the things I did do to the Technics was placing Mag Lev feet under the stock feet. Informal testing of tapping on my rack resulted in less noise picked up by a stationary stylus on a record. Not real scientific testing, but the added space under the table allows me to store some turntable tools under the table that would not fit previously.:)
 
Oldest records in my collection are probably 1950s. In the case of The RCA Victor Encyclopedia of Recorded Jazz, I can confidently assume 1955 or later, because of the "Gruve-Gard" feature.

Not adverse to going further back in time, to an occasional shellac disk, but what usually happens is that I find an album which intrigues, but the hit single is missing: The Ink Spots, sans "Java Jive", for instance, or the Andrews Sisters, minus "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy".

I do have a lone 78 RPM record on the Audiophile label, but it's microgroove, so I don't need a different stylus. Very good (mono) sonics. Pity it's got a nasty edge warp which only my modded Numark PT01 can track.

Also have a lone issue of the Soviet audio "magazine" Krugozor: Had long been curious to sample it, as I like the notion of a music magazine incorporating music in a way which wasn't simply taped to the cover, and didn't require tearing a flexidisk out (but alas, the plastic bindings were so stiff and flattened that I had to separate the individual sheets anyhow). The blue flexidisks from Melodya are the thinnest that I've ever encountered, and they're double-sided to boot. But they play! But the content, alas. My issue dates back to the Brezhnev era (11/72), and much of the content is talk about the virtues of Soviet socialism, and a feature on demining operations. My translator app works well on the spoken word content, but IMO it's more interesting when left untranslated. It's only towards the end that you get actual entertainment, with the highlight of the issue being forbidden western tunes by Serge Gainsbourg.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mpw
One of the things I did do to the Technics was placing Mag Lev feet under the stock feet. Informal testing of tapping on my rack resulted in less noise picked up by a stationary stylus on a record. Not real scientific testing, but the added space under the table allows me to store some turntable tools under the table that would not fit previously.:)
I'm not sure what a real scientific test would look like, but I find the tapping test to be a good enough real-world test, since you can immediately hear whether the vibrations are being picked up and heard in the speakers.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but I eliminated the mechanical vibrations using soft feet made of Sylomer, and I can now almost hit the surface without any sound transmitting to the speakers. I use the same feet under my subwoofers and between the bookshelf speakers and the stands, just dimensioned differently to suit different weights.
 
I'm not sure what a real scientific test would look like,
I would need to establish a "control" result before adding the Mag Lev feet then compare measurements against the "control". Things like - drop a weight on the rack and measure the amplitude and frequency of the impulse through the cartridge before and after putting the Mag Lev feet in service. You would have to exactly duplicate the height and location of the dropped weight to have decent accuracy. Probably best to do multiple drops with and without Mag Lev feet and average the results of each to get better accuracy.
By the time I got the Mag Lev's installed, table in correct location, and table leveled, I knew I would be leaving it be. Getting magnetic footers - that are constantly pushing each half apart - under existing feet, centered, and table leveled is not something I want to gain proficiency. Once was enough. Bonus is I have an additional excuse not to move the table!
 
One of the things I did do to the Technics was placing Mag Lev feet under the stock feet. Informal testing of tapping on my rack resulted in less noise picked up by a stationary stylus on a record. Not real scientific testing, but the added space under the table allows me to store some turntable tools under the table that would not fit previously.:)
I wonder how something like this would work for the low mass project deck, which I'm loath to pass on as |I've kind-of bonded with it (the OM10 pickup currently in it may well do 12" 45s better than the Carbon Pro. Tapping the unit the thing sat on did bring vibrations up into the playing stylus, far worse than the Rega as one would expect (the Rega weighs substantially more) and I got mixed subjective vibes from using some Audioquest sorbothane feet I have from years ago.
 
At day's end, one uses vinyl today to hopefully get the best 'sound' from vinyl records as possible and hopefully for those here, to use as good a source comparison as possible (so good digital then?). Donning my Linnie hat, may I suggest listening to bass lines. Does the vinyl source smudge 'em up? Does the bass sound like a one-note splurge. I'm talking mod bass and low midrange here. Does a run of piano notes 'run together' in a kind-of smear (old Regas with the R200 arm could do this). Get the bass as good as possible and the rest can improve as well (lower IMD?).

The above sounds daft to a more objective-based reader, but this is VINYL we're talking about and all bets are off I still feel. It's often possible to improve one area and mess up another - with the OM30 stylus, a 'Super OM' body as sold, can strip bass weight away, leaving an etched if clean hf region. Substituting a standard OM body can redress this a little, the Super OM body revitalising the OM5 and maybe the OM10 styli (i can't afford a 20 to try as no trade-price contacts). Interestingly, the 2M Red and 2M Blue models, keep much of the 'bounce' the OM series dilutes and as well as internal changes, I suspect the chunky outer bodies help as well (no proof though). I gather the Bronze and Black models have further internal tweaks as well as a different outer moulding material - one thing Ortofon are expert at doing is designing a 'sonic package' for their designs, whether neutral or not in some cases... Amazing how much cleaner and tidier the likes of an AT95E (or VM95E) can sound in a really well set up turentable/arm system, even if ultimately, the slightly closed-in top of the bonded elliptical and the less sophisticated internals can show itself up in terms of available separation in comparison with the VMx models priced above the 95 range (VM95ML vs VMx740).

Hope the above makes some kind of (subjective I know) sense.
 
I wonder how something like this would work for the low mass project deck, which I'm loath to pass on as |I've kind-of bonded with it (the OM10 pickup currently in it may well do 12" 45s better than the Carbon Pro. Tapping the unit the thing sat on did bring vibrations up into the playing stylus, far worse than the Rega as one would expect (the Rega weighs substantially more) and I got mixed subjective vibes from using some Audioquest sorbothane feet I have from years ago.
This is what I used and where I purchased.
Might help - not too terribly expensive even at full price.
 
Weight-adapted sylomer pads.


About €17 for a set of 8.

The"originals" Sonic design feet, are a bit more expensive today.


About €32 for a set of 8.
 
I wonder how something like this would work for the low mass project deck, which I'm loath to pass on as |I've kind-of bonded with it (the OM10 pickup currently in it may well do 12" 45s better than the Carbon Pro. Tapping the unit the thing sat on did bring vibrations up into the playing stylus, far worse than the Rega as one would expect (the Rega weighs substantially more) and I got mixed subjective vibes from using some Audioquest sorbothane feet I have from years ago.

If you only aim to reduce the vibrating sound, you go with those Mag Lev feet that @Bob from Florida is using, which I think are quite expensive. But if you want to eliminate the vibrating sound to nothing, you should look at the inexpensive Sylomer feet that @Thomas_A is linking to. ;)

These Sylomer feet has been used here in Sweden for over 30 years, and have been tested extensively at another objective-based forum called Faktiskt, which has been around many years before ASR came to life. Just wanted to mention that, so that no one thinks it’s just me who came to this conclusion. I think Thomas_A has done some deeper tests as well.

The only downside of the soft Sylomer feet is that, in combination with a Technics turntable, you can't put them directly under the existing feet, as those are "jointed," leading to bad balance for the turntable. So, you will need something like a board to place between the original feet and the soft Sylomer feet. My solution was to use a cheap IKEA butcher cutting board, which I showed earlier in this thread. You can’t see the soft feet under the board, making the board look like it’s floating above the surface underneath.

1783550289065.jpeg
 
A real time analyzer is a fun way to get a sense of how well turntable isolation is working.

In the case of Audio Technica 120USB, I'm able to see that higher frequencies can be picked up via dust cover or the record itself, but these are fairly easy to deal with, and I'm generally not playing music loud enough for it to be much of a concern in real life.

Subsonics (30 Hz and lower) are trickier, and seem to pass through the stock isolation feet. One way I deal with it is to set Waxwing's high pass filtering to 35 Hz.
 
I just used my iPhone and iPad app with a couple of vibration analyzing apps.
Not high tech, but they certainly showed significant differences in picking up vibrations with all sorts of different materials I tried.

If I had a sheet of some material, I would do things like place my iPhone on it with the vibration monitor app, and do some tap tests, as well as place a vibrating electric toothbrush on there just to see how much vibration got through versus other materials.

And when I was testing isolation materials for my turntable, I could place them on my rack and then do tests like rapping on the rack or stomping on the floor, and both measuring the differences with the iPhone app, and also feeling with my hands how much vibration was getting through.

Here’s a screenshot of some of my old tests:

1783556698161.jpeg


This is what my turntable would’ve sat on before I created my isolation base. Here’s a close-up of the vibrations reading where the iPhone vibration monitor was placed on top of my Lovan rack, with me stomping the wood floor around the rack.

1783556848211.jpeg


And here are the measurements stomping the floor, with the iPhone reading vibrations placed on top of the isolation base:

1783556946210.jpeg


Pretty dramatic. Even just placing my hand on the top of the Lovan rack and stomping around the floor I could hear the top shelf rattle and easily feel tons of vibration.
Once the isolation base was on top and I stomped on the floor I couldn’t feel anything at all.

Well, I attribute some of that to the constrained layer damping layers of wood and metal I put into the base, most of that isolation affect comes from the spring based Townshend isolation pods, which are holding up the isolation base. (and the pods are thick springs that are also wrapped in rubber so that they do not wiggle around)
 
If you only aim to reduce the vibrating sound, you go with those Mag Lev feet that @Bob from Florida is using, which I think are quite expensive. But if you want to eliminate the vibrating sound to nothing, you should look at the inexpensive Sylomer feet that @Thomas_A is linking to. ;)

These Sylomer feet has been used here in Sweden for over 30 years, and have been tested extensively at another objective-based forum called Faktiskt, which has been around many years before ASR came to life. Just wanted to mention that, so that no one thinks it’s just me who came to this conclusion. I think Thomas_A has done some deeper tests as well.

The only downside of the soft Sylomer feet is that, in combination with a Technics turntable, you can't put them directly under the existing feet, as those are "jointed," leading to bad balance for the turntable. So, you will need something like a board to place between the original feet and the soft Sylomer feet. My solution was to use a cheap IKEA butcher cutting board, which I showed earlier in this thread. You can’t see the soft feet under the board, making the board look like it’s floating above the surface underneath.

View attachment 543708
The SL1500 ancestor deck actually worked by directly coupling to the (heavy) cabinet it was on, by using upturned cones fitting in the screw-heads that hold the feet in place, removing the lid, which I always used to do with Regas and so on I demonstrated and adding a cork mat to the rubber original to get VTA right with the later Technics headshell (also the famous ADC shell) I was using. Subjectively, the bass cleaned up, the midrange opened out beautifully and top was sweet with clean tracking.

I like the Ikea chopping board idea, looks great :)
 
Mad money I'm afraid for a deck worth less than a hundred quid... Sorry ;)
I had some “Mad money” at the time from selling prior table. Compared to other Mag Lev solutions, the set of four was cheaper than one foot! Plus, whatever I tried had to be black to match the stock feet. WAF at work in shared living room where audio equipment lives.:)
 
The SL1500 ancestor deck actually worked by directly coupling to the (heavy) cabinet it was on, by using upturned cones fitting in the screw-heads that hold the feet in place, removing the lid, which I always used to do with Regas and so on I demonstrated and adding a cork mat to the rubber original to get VTA right with the later Technics headshell (also the famous ADC shell) I was using. Subjectively, the bass cleaned up, the midrange opened out beautifully and top was sweet with clean tracking.

I like the Ikea chopping board idea, looks great :)

That was a lucky suggestion by another member here, as the size of that cutting board was a perfect fit for the Technics 1200GR2, and probably for all modern Technics turntables out there. :)

When it comes to coupling a turntable to the surface underneath, I think that can be a bad idea, as you never know what resonances that cabinet will “amplify”, and especially with a very delicate thing like a turntable. The only sensible thing to do is to decouple it completely from the surface it stands on.

I think that the soft Sylomer feet I recommended will push down the possible resonances to around 10 to 15 Hz, which is below what we can hear and what most music contains.
 
Last edited:
That was a lucky suggestion by another member here, as the size of that cutting board was a perfect fit for the Technics 1200GR2, and probably for all modern Technics turntables out there. :)

When it comes to coupling a turntable to the surface underneath, I think that can be a bad idea, as you never know what resonances that cabinet will “amplify”, and especially with a very delicate thing like a turntable. The only sensible thing to do is to decouple it completely from the surface it stands on.

I think that the soft Sylomer feet I recommended will push down the possible resonances to around 10 to 15 Hz, which is below what we can hear and what most music contains.
The Mentor and also the much lighter Notts Spacedeck with RB300, were all but immune to what they were placed on. No idea why, but the 'sonics' didn't appear to change with siting. the LP12 of the era however, really did, although current less internally-resonant samples are rather better, especially 'Trampolin' equipped models which, in addition to the sprung suspension, have a solid base-board fitted with squidgy feet which kind-of remind me of the 'operation' of the Axis 'gland' suspension of old.

I stand by the 'bass tunes' test - whatever you do as regards isolation, the better and clearer the bass, the better vinyl tends to 'sound.'

Many here won't agree, but it CAN be fun to play vinyl records and if they're well set up to play, the music takes over from the sonics/objective side...
 
It's great to get the optimal setup on your Turntable getting the best sonic results one can get.
My lowly mid-80's Rega P3 - RB300 arm with a black Grada Cartridge is still fun to play Lp's without thinking about 'sonic/objective side..'. One is not required to spend 'tons of money on TT setup to enjoy listening to records.

Owning even 1 classic record is more enjoyable then having thousands of audio files in ones own streaming library with all the expensive of: computers, hard disks, software, digital front-ends, DAC's and more.
 
Owning even 1 classic record is more enjoyable then having thousands of audio files in ones own streaming library with all the expensive of: computers, hard disks, software, digital front-ends, DAC's and more.
Not to me, if I had to choose between one record and a thousand audio files, I would have a 1000 audio files. I am not going to be happy with listening to one record.
We do not have to choose, it is not either or situation. They both serve a purpose.
I am a lot more happy with my TT now that I have also access to digital sources that when my TT was my only source.
 
Back
Top Bottom