The comedy of some Hi res recordings

[Shadrach]

Whatever the lowest freq that a person can hear, the point is that just because you can't hear it, doesn't mean that it doesn't have a noticeable affect (effect?).
According to the spec sheet, my Onkyo has a range of 5Hz-100kHz.
I assume my separate amp (ATI 1506) would be similar to my Onkyo.
My speakers... not sure how high they can reproduce.

My amplifier doesn't have anything like that range.

 

[anmpr1]

More hi-rez comedy. Below is a photo of an album 'remastered in hi-rez'. Homemade recordings from the early '60s, some using a portable open reel deck. Can you say tape hiss and wow and flutter? How in the heck are 'hi-rez' remasters of living room recordings going to be 'an audiophiles dream' (it says in the advertisement)? Outside of Neil 'I want to sell you a Pono' Young, can anyone take it seriously? Hi-Rez--the ridiculousness of marketing.

 

[Phorize]

More hi-rez comedy. Below is a photo of an album 'remastered in hi-rez'. Homemade recordings from the early '60s, some using a portable open reel deck. Can you say tape hiss and wow and flutter? How in the heck are 'hi-rez' remasters of living room recordings going to be 'an audiophiles dream' (it says in the advertisement)? Outside of Neil 'I want to sell you a Pono' Young, can anyone take it seriously? Hi-Rez--the ridiculousness of marketing.

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What, you mean you can’t see an advantage to just dumping a recording with 60 odd db of dynamic range onto a 24 bit format, heretic?! If you want proof it’s better, just look at the higher price.

 

[Blumlein 88]

What, you mean you can’t see an advantage to just dumping a recording with 60 odd db of dynamic range onto a 24 bit format, heretic?! If you want proof it’s better, just look at the higher price.

60 db is rather optimistic.

 

[Phorize]

60 db is rather optimistic.

I thought that back in the day everyone used studer 862’s for home recording. I feel betrayed.

 

[Bluemootwo]

HiRes has been one of my bugbears for years.

Firstly, anything originally recorded on analogue tape with a S/N ratio of (at best) 70dB and a frequency response that's 3dB down at 20kHz as most studio machines are, can't be HiRes, however it's digitised.
Secondly, anything recorded with high quality large-diaphragm condenser microphones like Neumann or AKG won't have a frequency response much exceeding 18kHz, so won't be HiRes, whatever the sample rate.
Thirdly, even with a recent all-digital recording, using a wideband microphone or Direct Injection, exactly what signals of musical significance are there above 20kHz and below -90dB? Certainly there's the high frequency whistle from any SMPSs, wallwarts and the like, ditto with computer screens. There's fan noise from any computers and aircon, and there's traffic or aircraft rumble, there are also the musicians breathing, shuffling their feet, turning over pages of the score, but how are these musically significant?

To me, HiRes is a con, perpetrated on the music buying public to prop up the recording industry and/or to get more money out of the back catalogue. Just how many copies of DSOTM does anyone need?

There are good technical reasons for recording at 24 bit or higher and 96k sampling or higher, as the files are going to be processed and edited but none whatsoever for releasing a finished recording that way, except to con people into thinking they're better and so pay more.

S.

Help me - what has high frequencies got to do with it? Hi Res is about resolution - the sampling rate - and is therefore closer to the original analogue wave and a lower resolution. The sound quality improvement is relevant for all frequencies.

 

[BDWoody]

Help me - what has high frequencies got to do with it? Hi Res is about resolution - the sampling rate - and is therefore closer to the original analogue wave and a lower resolution. The sound quality improvement is relevant for all frequencies.

 

[Bluemootwo]

Engineering guy didn’t explain why I can clearly and easily hear quality improvements when I move up through the available resolutions of (for example) Radio Paradise through BlueOS.

 

[tmtomh]

Engineering guy didn’t explain why I can clearly and easily hear quality improvements when I move up through the available resolutions of (for example) Radio Paradise through BlueOS.

He didn't explain the reasion you hear what you hear - but he did establish clearly that whatever the reason, "higher resolution" is not it.

And it would be nice in such discussions if folks who make the initial claim you did - that a higher sampling rate brings the result "closer" to the original - would a least acknowledge that your claim, while a common-sense view, is actually mistaken.

 

[anmpr1]

Help me - what has high frequencies got to do with it? Hi Res is about resolution - the sampling rate...

Sampling rate is about high frequencies. The higher the rate the higher the frequencies that can be accurately reproduced in the analog domain. If Joni is recording using a 1960s tape recorder, regular 16/44 is all anyone would need to capture whatever remains on those tapes.

 

[CDMC]

Sampling rate is about high frequencies. The higher the rate the higher the frequencies that can be accurately reproduced in the analog domain. If Joni is recording using a 1960s tape recorder, 12 bit /32 khz is all anyone would need to capture whatever remains on those tapes.

Fixed it for you.

 

[xykreinov]

There are not a lot of cars weighing less than 1000 kg, and most that light are little toys.

True, but this little toy revs to 12,000 RPM:

Its engine is surely more musical than whatever comes after 20kHz in most high res music :^)

 

[Frank Dernie]

Heh.. while it is true that racing cars are light I wouldn't realy like to drive a car that weigths under 1500kg on the streets for obvious safety reasons.

Depends.
For avoiding an accident in the first place a light car is better.
You are far more likely to have a crash in a heavy car in an emegency situation.
Some heavy cars are not damaged themselves in an accident but this leads to higher peak "g" suffered by the occupants (admittedly this is much better undestood and controlled nowadays than it was).
One of the things making roads less safe today is the preponderance of big heavy vehicles which don't have very good dynamics, which does make people feel the same way you do in case one of them runs into them!

 

[andreasmaaan]

Engineering guy didn’t explain why I can clearly and easily hear quality improvements when I move up through the available resolutions of (for example) Radio Paradise through BlueOS.

I suspect you'd need a psychologist, rather than an engineer, to explain that.

But it's definitely worth testing. Have a friend or family member control the sample rate while you sit with your eyes closed and tr to identify or rank them. Ideally, to achieve a statistically significant result, use only two sample rates (perhaps 44.1kHz, which is the minimum for the full range of frequencies audible to humans, vs the highest rate available?), and test at least 15 times to check whether you can identify one from the other. 12 correct IDs would give you a 95% confidence interval.

Should not be difficult to set up, and would quickly allow you to verify that what you hear is not based on psychological effects resulting from knowing what sample rate you're listening to.

 

[Cbdb2]

Fast cars are not about needs. It's about wants. You would have to drive a car with a 0-60 time under four, not five to understand it. If all consumption was limited to needs we would be eating beans, living in tiny apartments and the economy would collapse. That was the dream of communism, and it failed.

And our enviroment would survive.

 

[TimF]

I go to the Priest and confess my sins. The Priest gives me a penance of a few prayers and maybe some public service duties. I dutifully carry out my prayers and public service. I leave a few dollars at the church. Was it a genuine Priest, and did I get genuine absolution? If I leave more rather than less money at the church, and if I choose the Priest carefully, do I get greater surety of absolution/forgiveness? Does Amir have a device that can measure my gross and net degree of besmirchedness? Oh, the fall from grace. All things we find to do and to occupy ourselves in a long lifetime. I tell you this, there are problems that come from abundance.

 

[Bluemootwo]

Read this, it's well explained there. And here's the important part:

"The sampling theorem introduces the concept of a sample rate that is sufficient for perfect fidelity for the class of functions that are bandlimited to a given bandwidth, such that no actual information is lost in the sampling process. It expresses the sufficient sample rate in terms of the bandwidth for the class of functions. The theorem also leads to a formula for perfectly reconstructing the original continuous-time function from the samples. "

As our hearing is bandlimited to 20kHz sampling rate of 44100 times per second is sufficient for us. Cats would probably benefit from higher sampling rate, but we wouldn't.

So does this mean that vinyl can be much more “grainy” than it currently is, and it wouldn’t matter? How grainy could vinyl be? Also, how come a vinyl record sounds better at the adage than nearer the hole? Is it because at the edge the resolution of vinyl is above 44,000 equivalent, but drops below that on the way to the hole?

 

[amadeuswus]

Maybe this isn't the "comedy" meant by the title of this thread (or I have a warped sense of humor), but I've noticed that some supposedly "Ultra HD" albums on Amazon Music HD have "HD" (16/44.1) tracks mixed in for no apparent reason. For example, in the Sibelius symphonies cycle with the Minnesota Orchestra and Osmo Vanska on BIS, Symphony no. 3 has the first two movements in Ultra HD and the last movement in pedestrian HD. Wonder how many listeners noticed the sudden loss of fidelity (without peeking)...

 

[andreasmaaan]

Is it because at the edge the resolution of vinyl is above 44,000 equivalent, but drops below that on the way to the hole?

Could you try explaining this a different way? Not sure I understand the question. What does "grainy" mean? What's the "hole"? And what is "edge resolution" and how are you determining it's higher than 44.1kHz for vinyl?

 

[Bluemootwo]

He didn't explain the reasion you hear what you hear - but he did establish clearly that whatever the reason, "higher resolution" is not it.

And it would be nice in such discussions if folks who make the initial claim you did - that a higher sampling rate brings the result "closer" to the original - would a least acknowledge that your claim, while a common-sense view, is actually mistaken.

What is the lower limit? If anything above 1411

He didn't explain the reasion you hear what you hear - but he did establish clearly that whatever the reason, "higher resolution" is not it.

And it would be nice in such discussions if folks who make the initial claim you did - that a higher sampling rate brings the result "closer" to the original - would a least acknowledge that your claim, while a common-sense view, is actually mistaken.

So is 1411 Kbps the magic number? Or is digital sound reproduction still perfect at a lower rate. How low?