The cliches of subjective audiophilia...

[antennaguru]

Your equipment is not revolving enough to hear the difference.... mine is.

How do you get your equipment to revolve? Is one piece of electronics "the Sun" and the other electronics revolve around it?

 

[levimax]

How do you get your equipment to revolve? Is one piece of electronics "the Sun" and the other electronics revolve around it?

fixed typo thanks

 

[JJB70]

The comments about engineers amuse me, what is an engineer? Engineer is a catch all term for dozens of engineering disciplines, many of which have pretty much zero in common beyond the underpinning mathematics and science. Even disciplines which outsiders might think are related are very separate. I have tertiary qualifications in marine engineering and naval architecture and despite those two disciplines having a very close working relationship the knowledge and skills are completely different. And that's before considering disciplines which really are widely separated, such as civil engineering and electronics engineering. I think it is true that engineers of all disciplines tend to have good analytical and mathematics knowledge and skills because of the underlying core skills required to work as an engineer but to try and claim expertise in one or more engineering fields gives expertise or even knowledge of other non-related fields is wrong.

 

[pads]

According to my dear old mum (rip) I stopped listening in my early teens.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I have done quite a few blind listening tests. See my thread at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tracking-my-listening-tests.24364/post-822052

Interesting that so many people in ASR openly admit that they don't trust their own senses.

For me, the more blind tests I did and the more I figured out the root causes of differences, the more I trust my hearing and initial gut feels.
: P

 

[TimF]

In the field of psychology/psychotherapy learning is required by means of reading and study, and by practicing writing out the material under consideration. The writing is a means of organizing one's thoughts, and learning how to express that in a conventional manner, and it forces the writer to come to terms with his beliefs about the material. Writing as recall also helps gel long term memory of the material. Yet... a very important piece is missing that being attentive and respectful interaction with persons with a range of illness and conditions. As an example, it is truly confounding and almost unbelievable how intractable delusions are to persons who have constructed and maintain delusions, and how experience limiting severe personality disorders are as if they were akin to a developmental disability. I wonder if some people have a strong resistance to if not an inability to handle complexity. On a side note, I find it impossible to overcome my fundamental presumption that the more expensive product is better than the less expensive one, and that the more expensive one never performs worse. Yet in the market place I constantly see luxury products at astounding prices that I know are no better and likely worse than lesser priced goods.

 

[Newman]

The comments about engineers amuse me, what is an engineer?

It amuses me too. But you do know why it happens in audio forums, don’t you? It is wishful thinking by ‘sighted-listening subjectivists’ with no technical background, in order to diminish the opinions of anyone who knows tech as ‘cloth-eared, lab-coated measurbators who would rather listen to sine waves and pink noise than music’, and to claim that as the main reason why they don’t hear the same things as the lyric poet columnists in the high-end rags. It’s a variant of xenophobic stereotyping. Just like me calling some columnists lyric poets.

 

[Newman]

“It could not have been unconscious bias because I thought I would prefer the other one more.”

A true classic, and one I have had given to me, more than once, as proof that the person involved is not experiencing bias in sighted listening!

 

[Victor Martell]

Interesting that so many people in ASR openly admit that they don't trust their own senses.

For me, the more blind tests I did and the more I figured out the root causes of differences, the more I trust my hearing and initial gut feels.
: P

NOBODY should trust their senses - human senses are fallible and are connected to a biased brain. You should stop.
Don't get me started on "gut"... Instruments is where is at!

v

 

[krabapple]

I am glad you only say, "vast majority" and not "all". Part of the problem is anyone can call themselves an engineer. Proper tertiary qualifications (bachelor degree) will ensure they have indeed covered much of the basic science as well. It is a requirement. Note also that it is common to include subjects in related fields as electives. The Engineer you disparage might have qualifications and experience far beyond your assumptions.

If it's not wrong that 'the vast majority' lack such relevant qualifications and experience, then it's reasonable to be just as skeptical of a random engineer's claims about audio as of a non engineer's.

The (typically male) engineer expressing contrarian viewpoints, from a stance that engineering training and mindset cut right through error and 'soft' thinking in any field, is common enough to be a 'type' online. So they'll patiently explain why biologists are simply wrong about evolution, or climatologists wrong about climate change, or epidemiologists wrong about pandemics, or everyone wrong about two commercial jetliners bringing down the WTC.

 

[Newman]

The amusement continues….

 

[pma]

Yes, perhaps if I had more experience around degreed engineers, I'd have a better appreciation for their general span of knowledge.

Generalizing?

 

[Geert]

Is one piece of electronics "the Sun" and the other electronics revolve around it?

That's the best description of an audiophiles hifi system I've ever seen.

 

[David Harper]

fixed typo thanks

good example of how the mind can work. when I read the original post I saw the word "resolving". My brain fixed the typo without my being consciously aware of it.

 

[Rip City Dave]

Reading this thread, it was as if a veil was lifted.

 

[restorer-john]

Even my wife, who has no interest in audio, remarked that this thread was excellent.

Officially, the best comment of August 2021.

If she read/heard it from the other room, that's even better.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

How do we know that a person is really what or who they say? Some people are just in love with garbage that will inflate their own self-image.

 

[Zog]

After seeing a post of someone stating that he possessed technical credentials, then proceeded to make a subjective argument... it kind of reminded me that this is a pattern that I see often. So instead of picking a beef with a specific forum member, decided to make a new post... and check if you see what I see, agree that they are repeating patterns... let's call them cliches

Am I missing others?

v

The sociologist in me says you are looking for affirmation.

 

[UniPolar]

<<Channeling Jeff Foxworthy >>

YOU might be an engineer if -- you measurebate frequently..

 

[Roland]

Sadly, here is yet another desperate ASR thread trying to insult and discredit anyone who has the temerity to express the opinion that amp or dac A sounds better to them than amp or dac B. It’s desparate because there is no evidence to support the proposition that A and B sound the same. Instead there is just the inference that if they measure the same, surely they must sound the same. Surely they sound the same, don’t they? Don’t they? In the absence of evidence we substitute smug belittling and what amounts to intimidation to prevent anyone from expressing an opinon that contradicts the belief in the current set of measurements as the sole determinant of music reproduction.
It's not the first time the "scientific" community has demonstrated such arrogance and it won't be the last.