The cheapest mastering monitor solution？（20-20khz flat）

[Blumlein 88]

Honestly, it may be for some tracks. I think with arguments like these, there's an attitude that there is "one right way to mix" and that's it. But it's really the total opposite. I'm not a mixing engineer, but I've listened to enough music across enough genres and types to know that well... there are CLEARLY as many opinions about "how to mix" as there are opinions about what the best music is.

You have some EDM tracks with absolutely insane low-bass that is not normally present in any sound outside of film tracks, for example. And then you have some pop music that seems like it must have been mastered with an 80hz high pass lol.

To add to that, surround, film, and concert mixes often seem very different from "normal" stereo mixes in terms of tonal balance. Hans Zimmer's Live in Prague concert in Atmos for example seemed like it had quite a lot more bass in the mix than his normal distribution stereo albums.

So yeah, like every other industry, I expect that there are many competing visions about what you should mix on and how you should mix it for different types of content and playback systems.

I agree with you. I don't think the idea of everyone mastering uses no more than a 6 inch driver is accurate for that reason. Some do, I don't have insight into whether it is the norm or not. It most definitely isn't the only way and a few very prominent renowned mastering people don't do it that way. Sterling studios for instance masters something like 30 % of all music by sales volume. A few of their mastering guys don't do it that way.

 

[QMuse]

For the devices that don't(phones, laptops, some soundbars, bluetooth speakers, etc) literally all of these devices are high passed(sometimes dynamically) so that they don't heavily distort.

I don't agree, I think vast majority of devices being used are not high passed.

 

[Sancus]

I don't agree, I think vast majority of devices being used are not high passed.

Have you actually tested this? I have My Dell XPS laptop actually distorts heavily if you go out of your way to disable the Waves MaxxAudio stuff that prevents it from doing so normally. Which is hard, since it auto re-installs.

And like I said, I can watch Netflix shows just fine on my phone, which has pretty much no response at all below 120hz, without any distortion. If low bass(which is present in the vast majority of film/tv mixes) caused distortion on these devices it would be readily apparent. But it doesn't.

 

[Maxicut]

So, do you mix without the bass masking the rest and then mix the bass in later?
(Maybe it is like trying to concentrate if you can hear a distracting metronomic noise in the background)?

No it has to be balanced

 

[QMuse]

Have you actually tested this? I have My Dell XPS laptop actually distorts heavily if you go out of your way to disable the Waves MaxxAudio stuff that prevents it from doing so normally. Which is hard, since it auto re-installs.

And like I said, I can watch Netflix shows just fine on my phone, which has pretty much no response at all below 120hz, without any distortion. If low bass(which is present in the vast majority of film/tv mixes) caused distortion on these devices it would be readily apparent. But it doesn't.

How can you test something like that? I certainly don't have statistics what has been used around the world to listen music, but I don't think considering laptops and phones even comes close to represent majority of the listening devices.

 

[Sancus]

How can you test something like that? I certainly don't have statistics what has been used around the world to listen music, but I don't think considering laptops and phones even comes close to represent majority of the listening devices.

OK, well, whatever, I don't care about this device argument. The point is that there is tons of music/film/tv content mixed with low bass(even including infrasonic bass) and there's no evidence that it causes problems on any playback devices.

 

[Maxicut]

Let us apply this concept the other way. Extreme. If you are mixing a track using a two way featuring a 3 inch mid-woofer you can only go by what is coming out of the speakers used. In this case, they aren't able to have any bass, so you'll pump it up until the 3 inch woofer cries uncle. In real life playback it will sound bass heavy. What is going to happen below about 150 hz is a mystery, because you never heard any of it even boosted. Who knows what you'll get? Maybe you'll cut everything out below 50 hz just to be safe. Kind of messed up if you ask me.

That is why you mix/master using 6" or 61/2" monitors.

That's the point I'm trying to make. In the non-pro world, arguments about how things should be will go on forever, but in the pro world, it has long been sorted... which includes the most accurate speaker size to use to mix/master the tracks that you end up listening to at home.

 

[QMuse]

The point is that there is tons of music/film/tv content mixed with low bass(even including infrasonic bass) and there's no evidence that it causes problems on any playback devices.

Of course it doesn't, because it has been mixed the way @Maxicut explained.

Btw, I wouldn't put music and movies in the same mixing bag.

 

[Sancus]

Of course it doesn't, because it has been mixed the way @Maxicut explained.

Btw, I wouldn't put music and movies in the same mixing bag.

This statement makes no sense however. There is plenty of music with loud bass between 20-40hz, which a 6" monitor isn't going to reproduce. Perhaps not the majority, but it's hardly rare. And I wasn't putting music and movies in the same mixing bag either. If movies are the 'exception' that has more bass(and I'd agree they often do) then they should cause the same playback problems that you are postulating would exist. And they don't.

 

[Wombat]

No it has to be balanced

Well, I still don't understand.

 

[QMuse]

This statement makes no sense however. There is plenty of music with loud bass between 20-40hz, which a 6" monitor isn't going to reproduce. Perhaps not the majority, but it's hardly rare.

Bass guitar goes down to 38Hz (or 33Hz with jazz), so apart from pipe organ only electronic music contains LF that can dominate the mix, but that can hardly be taken as a reference example. On the other hand, most of the electronic music has not been mixed by professionalists and in a professional studios so..

 

[Maxicut]

If you were mixing a dance track, you would mix it on the heavy side of bass, right?... but how would you know what the heavy side of bass was if you weren't tracking with flat accurate monitors in the 1st place?

 

[Blumlein 88]

If you were mixing a dance track, you would mix it on the heavy side of bass, right?... but how would you know what the heavy side of bass was if you weren't tracking with flat accurate monitors in the 1st place?

I'd know when my 6 inch woofers were just starting to give up the ghost a bit. I'd know at that point I've boosted lows just enough.

 

[Maxicut]

Well, I still don't understand.

When you mix the multitracks together, the end stereo mix needs to sound balanced to the ear in as many scenarios as possible. I listen to a finished mix on 6" then 8" then on my home stereo, then in my car, then on my neighbors ****** 3in1 ect.

 

[QMuse]

I'd know when my 6 inch woofers were just starting to give up the ghost a bit. I'd know at that point I've boosted lows just enough.

I think the question was how yould you know if you were mixing with a monitors with large woofer or the one coupled with subs? They would endure easilly at the point when 6" starts to suffer.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think the question was how yould you know if you were mixing with a monitors with large woofer or the one coupled with subs? They would endure easilly at the point when 6" starts to suffer.

Because boosted lows sound different than flat lows, I'd hear how much boost was being heard. That seems simple enough.

 

[Maxicut]

I'd know when my 6 inch woofers were just starting to give up the ghost a bit. I'd know at that point I've boosted lows just enough.

...is the the difference between guessing & doing it properly

 

[Wombat]

When you mix the multitracks together, the end stereo mix needs to sound balanced to the ear in as many scenarios as possible. I listen to a finished mix on 6" then 8" then on my home stereo, then in my car, then on my neighbors ****** 3in1 ect.

There is no one mix being optimal for all loudspeaker types and music genres. Targeting a market segment is possibly doable. Going beyond that is a limited compromise.

 

[Maxicut]

There is no one mix being optimal for all loudspeaker types and music genres. Targeting a market segment is possibly doable. Going beyond that is a limited compromise.

It's all a compromise. I mix it...I like it...you don't like it. That's why science & audio will never mix comfortably!

 

[Wombat]

It's all a compromise. I mix it...I like it...you don't like it. That's why science & audio will never mix comfortably!

The science is OK, it can be explained. You have not been so clear with your views.