The Case Against OLED

[dualazmak]

Contrary to many claims, OLED still are susceptible to screen burn.

Looks my new Panasonic 55-inch 4K OLED TV TH-55HZ1800 has some advanced automatic maintenance functions to avoid or minimize the screen burn-in and also to keep screen brightness uniformity. Since this TV is my first OLED, I do not know how effective the automatic maintenance would be, though.
https://jpn.faq.panasonic.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/44129/~/有機elテレビのお手入れ
AI translation into English by Google Chrome:
◆ Panel maintenance
　● Panel maintenance function <Target: OLED TVs after 2017>
　　　Panel maintenance is performed regularly to prevent panel burn-in.
　　　The panel status is self-diagnosed according to the TV usage status, and the optimum panel maintenance function is selected and executed.
　　There are two types of panel maintenance functions.
　　◎ Panel maintenance function (1)
　　　　Function: Scans all pixels of the panel and corrects them in a short time to reduce the variation in panel performance.
　　　　Device status: The screen goes off and the power lamp of the main unit lights orange (waiting for function).
　　　　Maintenance time: Approximately 10 minutes
　　◎ Panel maintenance function (2)
　　　　Function: Scans the panel pixels and corrects for a long time to reduce the variation in panel performance.
　　　　Pre-start notice: The "Regular panel maintenance notice" message is displayed.
　　　　Device status: The screen goes off and the power lamp of the main unit lights orange (waiting for function)
　　　　Maintenance time: Approximately 80 minutes
　　　　　　　　　　In the second half of maintenance, a white horizontal line scans from the top to the bottom of the panel.
　　　　Maintenance completion confirmation: When the TV power is turned on, "Panel maintenance processing is completed" is displayed.
　　* It can also be executed manually from "Menu"-"Screen Settings"-"Panel Maintenance".
　　* If the power is turned on during maintenance, the maintenance will be interrupted, but the maintenance will be restarted from the beginning after the next power off.

 

[Sal1950]

Since this TV is my first OLED, I do not know how effective the automatic maintenance would be, though.

All I know is the engineers have been working on these preventative measures since almost day 1 of OLED
I know the situation has improved but it hasn't been SOLVED.
Don't display static images or use your set for a monitor, that's all.

 

[amirm]

ooks my new Panasonic 55-inch 4K OLED TV TH-55HZ1800 has some advanced automatic maintenance functions to avoid or minimize the screen burn-in and also to keep screen brightness uniformity. Since this TV is my first OLED, I do not know how effective the automatic maintenance would be, though.

Our LG has multiple countermeasures including this one. It prompts us every few months to run through this treatment. In addition, it has a setting to reduce the Luminance (brightness) of static logos and such. And it has pixel shift which gradually moves the picture left and right. I think it will last long enough before we need to replace it with something else.

 

[JSmith]

The newer models are much less susceptible to "burn in"... which in the case of OLED is uneven aging, so more burn out than burn in really;

How Long Should A TV Last? Our 100 TV Accelerated Longevity And Burn-In Test

We've decided to run 100 TVs through a grueling 2-year test, turning on and off eight times a day, for a total of 126 hours per week, with each TV at its brightest settings.

www.rtings.com

Real-Life OLED Burn-In Test On 6 TVs

There are concerns about OLED long-term performance due to the possibility of burn-in. We bought 6 LG OLED C7s to play real, non-altered content. It should give you a better idea of what to expect depending on what you watch on your TV.

www.rtings.com

JSmith

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Size isn't everything. Quality isn't everything either.
Actual real life use case matters most and per usual you always have to strike a compromise.

I use a 55" XF90 Sony TV as a PC monitor. Due to a lot of static content, OLED was not an option despite being superior when it comes to blacks/contrasts.
The picture quality and colors are fantastic, with the usual LCD caveats, of course.

Patiently waiting for micro-LED to actually hit the market, giving us OLED quality with LCD brightness and no "burn in" worries.

 

[bloodshoteyed]

I wouldn't dare use one as an alternative PC screen as I often do and then fall
asleep with ASR or whatever on the tube.

remember those?

In addition, it has a setting to reduce the Luminance (brightness) of static logos and such. And it has pixel shift which gradually moves the picture left and right.

using it as a monitor, i had to turn the adaptive brightness off
the pixel shift tho, it almost cost me my sanity (not that there's much left og it anyway) before figuring it out

 

[dasdoing]

The problem is you can't project black so you need a dark room. OK for an actual dedicated theater but most people want to watch more casually sometimes.


...I like a bigger screen (I have 72" plasma) but I'm more picky about sound than picture.

yes....I actually think a projection system is pretty niche even if cost is not a factor. it manly serves enthusiast. who wants to be in a windowless dark room while casualy watching TV? I even suspect that most installed projection systems are rarely used, just like personal swimming pools

 

[JSmith]

remember those?

JSmith

 

[DonH56]

Contrary to many claims, OLED still are susceptible to screen burn.
I wouldn't dare use one as an alternative PC screen as I often do and then fall
asleep with ASR or whatever on the tube.

I mentioned that a while back. We'll try not to bore you so you don't fall asleep. However, I would be very wary of an OLED PC screen or monitor as well.

 

[luft262]

Am I the only one who can't spot the difference between panels? If I go to a TV shop and look at the OLED and QLED side by side, I honestly can't see the difference in picture quality. The only difference I see are the price and the size. I am hardly a TV expert and yes I know there are measurable differences, but somehow I haven't tuned my eyes to spot them the way I can hear differences between speakers or taste the difference between wines. That might be a very good thing!

Having said that, I did go for a 65" Sony OLED a few years ago. That thing is annoying, it takes so long to launch the Netflix or Youtube apps. Are modern TV's faster?

If you get a streaming device like a Roku player or Apple TV and plug it into one of the HDMI ports on your TV it will be much faster due to being newer and having faster processing. That's a much cheaper solution than buying a new TV.

 

[Tks]

Like I said in my post earlier, it is all about motion resolution for me when it comes to plasma. It was the only technology that managed to preserve most of the resolution once there was any motion, especially during camera panning. As a big fan of soccer which includes a lot of camera movement, I still have not found a TV that can do what CRT or Plasma could when it comes to motion at standard broadcast rates of 60hz.

Plasma isn't a sample & hold display, so that doesn't really hold (sorry idk what compelled me to type this). Modern televisions all can handle 24p content and remove telecinic judder without issue. Motion interpolation to 120p (since most modern TV's can refresh at 120Hz) to remain in the multiple of 24p also deals with this for TV's that refresh that high.

For gaming, is where you would see an issue with OLED motion, with low framerate content, the pixel response is so high, it brings noticable stutter. Where older TV tech simply was poor with pixel response transitions, the stutter would be masked with smearing. But Plasma wouldn't save you for gaming anyway since they're all television sizes, and pixel density at 1080p or worse resolution is simply a no go by any stretch of the imagination in the modern day. And the motion blur is simply too great anyway.

 

[bboris77]

Plasma isn't a sample & hold display, so that doesn't really hold. Modern televisions all can handle 24p content and remove telecinic judder without issue. Motion interpolation to 120p (since most modern TV's can refresh at 120Hz) to remain in the multiple of 24p also deals with this for TV's that refresh that high.

For gaming, is where you would see an issue with OLED motion, with low framerate content, the pixel response is so high, it brings noticable stutter. Where older TV tech simply was poor with pixel response transitions, the stutter would be masked with smearing. But Plasma wouldn't save you for gaming anyway since they're all television sizes, and pixel density at 1080p or worse resolution is simply a no go by any stretch of the imagination in the modern day. And the motion blur is simply too great anyway.

When you say "that doesn't really hold", what do you mean specifically? I know that Plasma is not sample & hold - that is why it has a vastly superior motion resolution to any other technology at 60Hz.

Even though I agree with most of your points here, I still insist that even an ancient plasma from 2014 preserves more lines of resolution when there is a camera movement for 1080p60Hz content, like 99.9% sports streams and broadcasts today. Unfortunately, even the recent World Cup was not broadcast in 4K here in Canada.

Make no mistake, I do prefer the picture quality on my 4K OLED to my 1080p plasma for sure, but not for watching 1080p60Hz content.

 

[Marc v E]

When you say "that doesn't really hold", what do you mean specifically? I know that Plasma is not sample & hold - that is why it has a vastly superior motion resolution to any other technology at 60Hz.

Even though I agree with most of your points here, I still insist that even an ancient plasma from 2014 preserves more lines of resolution when there is a camera movement for 1080p60Hz content, like 99.9% sports streams and broadcasts today. Unfortunately, even the recent World Cup was not broadcast in 4K here in Canada.

Make no mistake, I do prefer the picture quality on my 4K OLED to my 1080p plasma for sure, but not for watching 1080p60Hz content.

This difference is nicely explained in this comparison video:

Start at 8:45 for motion resolution

(Other differences are explained too)

 

[Tks]

When you say "that doesn't really hold", what do you mean specifically? I know that Plasma is not sample & hold - that is why it has a vastly superior motion resolution to any other technology at 60Hz.

Even though I agree with most of your points here, I still insist that even an ancient plasma from 2014 preserves more lines of resolution when there is a camera movement for 1080p60Hz content, like 99.9% sports streams and broadcasts today. Unfortunately, even the recent World Cup was not broadcast in 4K here in Canada.

Make no mistake, I do prefer the picture quality on my 4K OLED to my 1080p plasma for sure, but not for watching 1080p60Hz content.

Sorry, idk what I was trying to say there (was typing away also on Reddit at the time) Plasma uses a sub-field drive, obviously not sample-and-hold. When you say it has "vastly superior motion resolution" sure, at first, and at native. But this isn't the case anymore as you understand when you properly hedged against the cases (like when you increase the refresh rate). I know the last made Pioneer 60" plasma had 1080 lines of motion resolution, while sample and hold baseline of 300 lines has easily been rectified with things like BFI and frame interpolation.

What I'm a bit lost on, is you say you don't prefer 1080p 60Hz content on OLED, I assume that means games? Because most content isn't presented in 60fps (which is basically all movies). I see no gain over OLED in basically any scenario if you engage the dejudder options, especially if said option on your OLED engages 120Hz output and does something like 5:5:5 pulldown.

There are other nitpicks about motion in plasma I can talk about but they're a bit esoteric and users have largely learned to ignore it. (Like uneven decay rates leading to green trails of highly contrasting content on a white background - or dynamic false contouring that is quite common with things like skin tones leading to posterized look, and finally slowly pixel response times which can be a benefit for content that has gone through 4:4:4 pulldown if your plasma supports it, but otherwise is not really desired if you want high framerate content)

 

[JeffS7444]

I’m still waiting for display technology with sufficient dynamic range to replicate lighting from the deepest shadows to midday sun. But the USA has enough personal-injury lawsuits already.

 

[elvisizer]

The biggest drawback to me is that OLEDs are subject to burn-in, similar to the old CRT and plasma sets.

not a thing anymore really. I've been using an LG CX 48 inch OLED as a computer/ps5 display for over 3 years now. and I work from home. so we're talking EVERY day 8 hour-ish a day macOS is putting static images up on that display. . . and then after work I use it with the PS5, so more static elements all night.
no image retention let alone burnin. OLEDs these days have some very nice features that mitigate this issue- pixel shift, blah blah . . . it works!

 

[bboris77]

Sorry, idk what I was trying to say there (was typing away also on Reddit at the time) Plasma uses a sub-field drive, obviously not sample-and-hold. When you say it has "vastly superior motion resolution" sure, at first, and at native. But this isn't the case anymore as you understand when you properly hedged against the cases (like when you increase the refresh rate). I know the last made Pioneer 60" plasma had 1080 lines of motion resolution, while sample and hold baseline of 300 lines has easily been rectified with things like BFI and frame interpolation.

What I'm a bit lost on, is you say you don't prefer 1080p 60Hz content on OLED, I assume that means games? Because most content isn't presented in 60fps (which is basically all movies). I see no gain over OLED in basically any scenario if you engage the dejudder options, especially if said option on your OLED engages 120Hz output and does something like 5:5:5 pulldown.

There are other nitpicks about motion in plasma I can talk about but they're a bit esoteric and users have largely learned to ignore it. (Like uneven decay rates leading to green trails of highly contrasting content on a white background - or dynamic false contouring that is quite common with things like skin tones leading to posterized look, and finally slowly pixel response times which can be a benefit for content that has gone through 4:4:4 pulldown if your plasma supports it, but otherwise is not really desired if you want high framerate content).

The only content I prefer on my plasma are sports streams/cable content which, to this day, is only presented in 720p or 1080i or 1080p.

I definitely would not choose plasma for gaming any longer. I have been playing games at 4k since PS4 Pro days. Sure, FPS shooters can benefit from the increased motion resolution of plasma if you play them at 1080p but most monitors these days have vastly superior input lag figures, especially if you play at 120Hz or higher which my F8500 cannot do.

As for the downsides of plasma, I agree that the green trailing was by far the worse anomaly on pretty much all plasmas I owned, especially when watching black and white content. That is, until the F8500 came out, which completely eliminated that phenomenon. Shame it was the last plasma ever made

 

[DonH56]

not a thing anymore really. I've been using an LG CX 48 inch OLED as a computer/ps5 display for over 3 years now. and I work from home. so we're talking EVERY day 8 hour-ish a day macOS is putting static images up on that display. . . and then after work I use it with the PS5, so more static elements all night.
no image retention let alone burnin. OLEDs these days have some very nice features that mitigate this issue- pixel shift, blah blah . . . it works!

There have been a lot of enhancements to reduce burn-in but test results showed my LG C7 was susceptible to it back when I bought it. I have no idea the current state of affairs; from the very limited reading I have done, pixel shifting/rotating and brightness control has reduced and "smeared" the effects of burn-in so it is less visual. Again, not my field, and I do not know how current models compare.

 

[elvisizer]

There have been a lot of enhancements to reduce burn-in but test results showed my LG C7 was susceptible to it back when I bought it. I have no idea the current state of affairs; from the very limited reading I have done, pixel shifting/rotating and brightness control has reduced and "smeared" the effects of burn-in so it is less visual. Again, not my field, and I do not know how current models compare.

c7 is waaaaay old at this point. the model I'm talking about is 3 generations newer than a c7 and even my CX is 2 generations behind the current models.
it's solved, basically.

 

[Tks]

The only content I prefer on my plasma are sports streams/cable content which, to this day, is only presented in 720p or 1080i or 1080p.

I definitely would not choose plasma for gaming any longer. I have been playing games at 4k since PS4 Pro days. Sure, FPS shooters can benefit from the increased motion resolution of plasma if you play them at 1080p but most monitors these days have vastly superior input lag figures, especially if you play at 120Hz or higher which my F8500 cannot do.

As for the downsides of plasma, I agree that the green trailing was by far the worse anomaly on pretty much all plasmas I owned, especially when watching black and white content. That is, until the F8500 came out, which completely eliminated that phenomenon. Shame it was the last plasma ever made

One thing I should also mention about OLED, and it's an utterly backward assed trend, is we seem to be moving away from the 120Hz (or greater) black frame insertion option. All manufacturers have now decided for some insane inexplicable reason to regress back down to 60Hz BFI which is utter garbage (it doesn't help that this frequnecy is something people are perceptibly sensitive to).

This has been the most puzzling move in the development and product offerings of OLED's I have seen thus far. Just a completel regression with zero merit or technical benefit reaped from doing so. The only literal reason I could conjure is product segmentation of upcoming OLED monitor market attempts. They don't want their TV's sporting such BFI advances because they then can't differentiate their monitors enough (especially since many current "monitors" are repurposed small-sized TV panels in reality). Aside from this, it's simply inconceivable as to why this is occurring. Every single OLED television on the market suffers this regression currently.