The Case Against OLED

[Ken Tajalli]

A good topic this,
Next year i'm going to buy a new Television, I know the size i want it 65", so that's settled. My current TV is 13 years old now, i was sure for many years that it was gonna be Oled, however i'm hesitant since Mini-led already is a huge improvement, and gotten quite close to Oled.
I rarely watch anything in broad daylight, most of viewing is evenings (like virtually everyone else) and even when (only weekends) i can lower electrical blinds.
Any thoughts? or why i still should go for Oled?

Actually, OLEDs are ideal for evening viewings and not so much for daylight, bright rooms.
OLED has one main advantage, that no other technology can equal, Contrast!
OLED uses individual colour bulbs! to make the picture, since they can be turned fully off, fully on & in-between, in essence gives the OLED panels infinite contrast ratio.
This is important!
However, cost-effective OLEDs have one drawback, that is max. brightness, also prone to burnouts if abused.
So if you do not require a very bright TV, OLED is the way to go, but don't answer too quickly. A TV capable of good brightness with control is the first requirement for me, but I won't go into details of that.
For me, a mini-led TV with good local dimming and quantum dot, still, is the best compromise.

 

[AdrianusG]

Actually, OLEDs are ideal for evening viewings and not so much for daylight, bright rooms.
OLED has one main advantage, that no other technology can equal, Contrast!
OLED uses individual colour bulbs! to make the picture, since they can be turned fully off, fully on & in-between, in essence gives the OLED panels infinite contrast ratio.
This is important!
However, cost-effective OLEDs have one drawback, that is max. brightness, also prone to burnouts if abused.
So if you do not require a very bright TV, OLED is the way to go, but don't answer too quickly. A TV capable of good brightness with control is the first requirement for me, but I won't go into details of that.
For me, a mini-led TV with good local dimming and quantum dot, still, is the best compromise.

Okay thanks

Well everything current (in price range Euro 1700-2300) will already be a huge improvement over what i have now.
My current TV is a 13 year old 49" Sony LCD, it is 4K, but without support for any of the HDR formats, they simply weren't there at the time, and Oled was available, but totally out of budget back then.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Okay thanks

Well everything current (in price range Euro 1700-2300) will already be a huge improvement over what i have now.
My current TV is a 13 year old 49" Sony LCD, it is 4K, but without support for any of the HDR formats, they simply weren't there at the time, and Oled was available, but totally out of budget back then.

Within your price range, checkout LG OLEDs, against Samsung QD and Sony TVs.

 

[AdrianusG]

Within your price range, checkout LG OLEDs, against Samsung QD and Sony TVs.

I will, when the time comes

 

[Petrushka]

I feel a bit out of place here. About six months ago my old LED TV died suddenly. We had been talking about replacing it, but we’re hoping to wait til next year, when our finances will be better.

So we went out to Costco to look for a 42 inch temp, and wound up with a 55 inch LG, for $370. Almost, but not quite, on Consumer Reports recommended list. It has every technical shortcoming imaginable, but it’s beautiful. I could see it compared side by side with TVs costing four times as much, and the differences were obvious. I expected to hate it, but I’ve forgotten all about the comparisons.

I’m using a Roku Ultra. I never touch the TV remote, which I hate. I have hundreds of old BBC television shows converted to MKV from DVD. On a USB drive attached to the Ultra. The Roku does a nice job of upscaling, even with the older ones.

I should say it’s a bedroom TV, and we view from more than 12 feet, which minimizes picture defects. Anyway, next year I should be able to afford anything I want, and I’m not sure I will be in a hurry.

 

[AdrianusG]

I feel a bit out of place here. About six months ago my old LED TV died suddenly. We had been talking about replacing it, but we’re hoping to wait til next year, when our finances will be better.

So we went out to Costco to look for a 42 inch temp, and wound up with a 55 inch LG, for $370. Almost, but not quite, on Consumer Reports recommended list. It has every technical shortcoming imaginable, but it’s beautiful. I could see it compared side by side with TVs costing four times as much, and the differences were obvious. I expected to hate it, but I’ve forgotten all about the comparisons.

I’m using a Roku Ultra. I never touch the TV remote, which I hate. I have hundreds of old BBC television shows converted to MKV from DVD. On a USB drive attached to the Ultra. The Roku does a nice job of upscaling, even with the older ones.

I should say it’s a bedroom TV, and we view from more than 12 feet, which minimizes picture defects. Anyway, next year I should be able to afford anything I want, and I’m not sure I will be in a hurry.

Yeah, and you know what's the worst, even though my TV is old and lacking (compared with the best available right now), there's absolute nothing wrong with it either, i never buy something with the thought of buying something better an newer every 5 years or so, just for the sake of having "the latest" so i still feel a bit guilty wanting to replace it, while it's doing nothing wrong.

A couple of years ago i added a 4K smart box because of .. well i could'n install any additional apps anymore due to the too old android system, so adding an Nvidia with even a slot for micro SD card fixed that problem.

 

[Oddball]

Just to share my 2c..

Have 83" A90J OLED, not the newest, but still pretty good OLED. Also have 98" QLED TCL 98x955. It took TCL quite a while to iron out some big issues, but after 9 most and 2 firmware upgrades I honestly enjoy TCL much more than Sony. It is not just the size (although that is the biggest differentiator) , it is the brightness and colour saturation, coupled with really strong blacks and very good reproduction of dark scenes. I don't really consider 1 nit mastered scenes as anything that I should ever worry about though. Processing on 4K content has improved so much that I can't really see any downside compared to Sony A90J despite the much larger screen. Contrast is natively better on OLED, but IMO TCL reached a point where the difference is practically indistinguishable for real life watching and is an issue for people that do pixel staring rather that watching. Dedicated hi-end DAC with 120dB SINAD will be more transparent than my AVP with 107dB, but would like to see a blind test to tell one from another.

Have not seem new Bravia 9, but Sony decided not to compete in 98" and above class thus my interest will be just educational. 97" LG G2 is now EUR 16K which is still way too much compared to TCL 98x955 that is EUR 6K, plus G2 is 2 generations older than current G4 model that sells for EUR 25K. 88" 8K OLED is an odd one and expensive as the 97" models, although much smaller and integrated with its funky stand.

While I can still see a case for OLEDs in dark/er rooms and sizes below 83", mini LEDs are really quickly closing the gap and exceeding OLEDs in couple of key categories of image quality. Their lower production cost and further quick advancement in image quality will likely make them a predominant choice for most customers.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Because the TCL QLED screen is bright, you are assuming it has more contrast than your OLED, but it does not!
No QLED even with excellent local dimming, can beat an OLED in sheer contrast measurements, though they can come close.
Black areas on an OLED, adjacent to super bright areas, such as white titles on a black background, are switched off, so no blooming, no leakage, no light output.
A QLED, may have brighter titles, but without local dimming, there would be excessive blooming, with good local dimming it gets reduced, but never perfect.
I opted for a Samsung QLED myself, because brightness and HDR are important to me. It cost me as much as a decent OLED though.

 

[Oddball]

I was pretty specific in my post so no claims of superior contrast were made.

Glad you like your Samsung. Not really sure why they shy from supporting DV?

 

[bloodshoteyed]

A capable TV. can upscale & process good HD material very well.
Where they miss, is noise & compression artefact reduction.
So the 4K alone, as it is being churned out carelessly, is not much of an improvement, but HDR is!
A clean 4K HDR copy (a rarity) is breathtaking on a good large TV.
So, I have been resorting to Ai processing the footage. Ai can efficiently remove noise and artefacts + upscale.
Results are eye-popping.
If one wants to draw a parallel with HIFI, it is akin to having the best hifi gear, only to play low bitrate mp3 on it.

the real difference is on 480p & 720p content, which tbh most of the tv channels still are (i have the tv part as a package deal with my ISP, but didn't use it for over a year now...), that's where Sony is still unbeatable

AI where in the chain, exaclty?
i did try AI functions on the C2 but couldn't really stand any of them..

 

[Petrushka]

the real difference is on 480p & 720p content, which tbh most of the tv channels still are (i have the tv part as a package deal with my ISP, but didn't use it for over a year now...), that's where Sony is still unbeatable

AI where in the chain, exaclty?
i did try AI functions on the C2 but couldn't really stand any of them..

I find my Roku to produce very good images from DVD files, and pleasant images from old broadcast shows.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

the real difference is on 480p & 720p content, which tbh most of the tv channels still are (i have the tv part as a package deal with my ISP, but didn't use it for over a year now...), that's where Sony is still unbeatable

Yes the DSP on Sony and Samsung's are pretty good.

AI where in the chain, exaclty?
i did try AI functions on the C2 but couldn't really stand any of them..

I process the movies on my PC using Ai, to cleanup, enhance and upscale.
It is not part of a TV. I have seen madVR envy DSP boxes, that do a wonderful job.

madVR Envy | The award-winning video processor for the best HDR, 4K upscaling, aspect ratio mangement and more for your dedicated home theater

madvrenvy.com

@$18k!

 

[Timcognito]

Looks like the LG C3 is the best buy in TVs right now in the US according to these guys. The C4 isn't that much better

LG OLED C4 Review: High-End Staple Balances Picture Quality and Value

LG's OLED C-series was our favorite high-end TV last year, and this year's model proved equally impressive.

www.cnet.com

 

[Oddball]

the real difference is on 480p & 720p content, which tbh most of the tv channels still are (i have the tv part as a package deal with my ISP, but didn't use it for over a year now...), that's where Sony is still unbeatable

AI where in the chain, exaclty?
i did try AI functions on the C2 but couldn't really stand any of them..

I can't really say much for 480 and 720p content as don't really watch it any more. News and stuff on laptop and smartphone, otherwise streaming and that is at least full HD.

I could see AI being more aggressive (and better) in upscaling such content than Sony though. While Sony cares about it processing, they care even more of passing the video torture tests so that their display can take the crow in shootouts and reviews. Nothing wrong with that approach though. Perfectly legitimate. For my use case pretty irrelevant though as they don't do 98" or larger displays anymore.

 

[bloodshoteyed]

I process the movies on my PC using Ai, to cleanup, enhance and upscale.

would you mind sharing what HW/SW combo you're using?

 

[Ken Tajalli]

would you mind sharing what HW/SW combo you're using?

Sure.
I mainly use Topaz Video Ai, for cleanup and upscaling. For general video editing, colour correction and HDR tonemapping, I use Tmpgenc .
Hardware is a PC with 12th gen i5 and NVidia RTX 4060 ti video card.
After a couple of hundred movies and TV episodes, I am getting better at it, still learning.

 

[Fahzz]

Sorry if this is off topic, but has anyone switched from a 50" screen to a 48"? There's a 48" OLED that I've been considering, and it's on sale. Just wondering about the downside(s) of downsizing. Thanks.

 

[waynel]

Sorry if this is off topic, but has anyone switched from a 50" screen to a 48"? There's a 48" OLED that I've been considering, and it's on sale. Just wondering about the downside(s) of downsizing. Thanks.

There are 83" OLEDs widely available

 

[EJ3]

There are 83" OLEDs widely available

I have had no TV since 2007, I was thinking that 48" would be fine in the living room (viewing distance 9 feet [can make it 12 feet but that is NOT a permanent spot for the couch, as it causes the front door to be a labyrinth the moment you step inside. & a 32" monitor (up from 27") on my desk top computer in my office.

 

[dshreter]

Sorry if this is off topic, but has anyone switched from a 50" screen to a 48"? There's a 48" OLED that I've been considering, and it's on sale. Just wondering about the downside(s) of downsizing. Thanks.

50” and 48” are almost the same size. The only downsize is the missed opportunity to go bigger until you’re ready to replace the 48”. It’s pretty rare that a 65” is actually too large