not better, in most cases, but "not worse". And we do ask that people use their ears. But without their eyes.This thread is also making the "belief" the old guys are wrong just because the conventional measurements say the new stuff is better.
not better, in most cases, but "not worse". And we do ask that people use their ears. But without their eyes.This thread is also making the "belief" the old guys are wrong just because the conventional measurements say the new stuff is better.
It is, what it is, no big regrets. No doubt I would have saved a few $'s. My system was set many years ago and I have never been one to chase after the audio voodoo for more than a few years now.So would you, as an apostate, not liked to have gotten out sooner?
......but does it convince your brain?
Could that be the difference between you and them? Maybe keeping their inefficient ClassA amps and not getting a new ClassC [errrr.. slave labor in polluting shops?] amps they are actually doing good for the e-perspective???...From a modern environmental perspective...
The best thing one can do is to stop reading hifi magazines , instead, read Tooles book and do your own recordings of acoustical instruments .So, recently I have had discussions with old forums mates who are unfortunately stuck in their ways and still rely old ideas, like class A design amps are the only way to go for ultimate audio quality, a chigher price means "better", "high-end" can't ever be cheap, class D is horrible and could never match the power of class A, class D could never handle 2ohm loads etc.
I have provided some of these people with detailed information about how those can generally be misconceptions, data sheets on Purifi/Hypex modules, measurements and examples of well implemented modules etc. Some have digested this information and are interested in learning more, however some still refer to their ears being the panacea and consider the information "meaningless graphs" even though they have an understanding of what they are seeing. To me this is very "head in the sand" and "get off my lawn" type of attitude.
I'm interested to discuss how others have approached this and what they feel is the best way to assist an audio enthusiast to understand that many of their pre-conceptions about audio are misleading or simply outright factually incorrect, without the person feeling their knowledge and experience is threatened. Rather, to add to their experience and knowledge by not ignoring positive developments in the audio industry.
JSmith
The best way to bring audio enthusiasts from the dark side and see the light?
Anyone who uses kills and puny in the same sentence....is a DB. Don't engage.Agree mate, however in this case these are online associates... this is the kind of comments I mean for example;
As mentioned, I've provided this particular person with detailed measurements and data sheets for Purifi modules and amps using same, yet was dismissed as "marketing speak" and "meaningless graphs".
I'd like to enlighten some of these people so they can see the light like many of us have here.
I guess one can take a horse to water but can't make it drink.
JSmith
Not worth trying and waisting your time, when people refuse to look at scientific facts it becomes beliefs bias good luck trying to change their minds!So, recently I have had discussions with old forums mates who are unfortunately stuck in their ways and still rely old ideas, like class A design amps are the only way to go for ultimate audio quality, a chigher price means "better", "high-end" can't ever be cheap, class D is horrible and could never match the power of class A, class D could never handle 2ohm loads etc.
I have provided some of these people with detailed information about how those can generally be misconceptions, data sheets on Purifi/Hypex modules, measurements and examples of well implemented modules etc. Some have digested this information and are interested in learning more, however some still refer to their ears being the panacea and consider the information "meaningless graphs" even though they have an understanding of what they are seeing. To me this is very "head in the sand" and "get off my lawn" type of attitude.
I'm interested to discuss how others have approached this and what they feel is the best way to assist an audio enthusiast to understand that many of their pre-conceptions about audio are misleading or simply outright factually incorrect, without the person feeling their knowledge and experience is threatened. Rather, to add to their experience and knowledge by not ignoring positive developments in the audio industry.
JSmith
I wonder why some fields [of technology thus consumer products] are more receptive of “new” than others? In car industry, people generally accept “progress” and that the new technologies and solutions are superior to old/vintage ones… while in hi-fi not so much..?
Nah! I think some call it 'paying forward' others are on that thought about 'giving a fishhook rather than giving fish', I like the one about 'you can take the horsey to the water but you can't make him drink from it!' ( can be viewed as 'giving the water but not the tongue').Not worth trying and waisting your time
@litemotiv, thank you for the link; very thought-provoking:You may find it interesting to check out:
*"Quest for certainty: Fits really and literally ONLY in Logic and Math" [Huh? what about ASR?]
*"Every other discipline is strictly evidential and in degrees, never in certainty but only in degrees" [Yes, I can understand that for physics but they also make a mention of "nature of time" as being uncertain?]
That sounds familiar to me.I participate in two forums where subjectivity reigns - Audiogon and Harbeth Facebook Group. My rule is that I don’t overtly contradict people or push for evidence *unless* someone is asking advice about upgrading their amp, cables, etc. Then I step in and encourage them not to waste their money. You really can’t reason with someone who has already made the investment. At least in a short period of time and in an online setting.
Truthfully, my participation in both places has dropped to near zero. The really insistent subjectivists will pull out all the obnoxious stops to tribally excommunicate you and it gets really tiresome. I know @Willem has been bounced from the Harbeth FB Group, which is just amazing considering Alan Shaw’s position on electronics.
Isn’t the exact opposite the goal?Bring them to church. Make them see the light (Hifi light).
I've never been to a hi-fi show where all the systems sounded good. Usually there's a few that sound very good, a few that are acceptable, and lots (usually the most expensive ones) that are badly flawed.View attachment 180941
If people want to believe ... they'll generally end up believing.
Subjectivists like to rant about 'trusting your ears', but I suspect the real issue is that they don't. Back in the '90s I devoutly hoovered up all the drivel written by people like Ken Kessler in HFN and wasted a lot of time (and money) on different amplifiers, different CD players/DACs, various 'tweaks', etc. Yet strangely enough, none of them transported me to the sonic nirvana that I was expecting. I went to hifi shows and the systems there all sounded good, but they also sounded loud