The Best DAC Award 2020 !

[jae]

Ancient proverb say, wisest is the man who choose DAC for the colour of its case than for it's soundstage.

Frankly I would have bought a Matrix Element X already if it came in black.

 

[vhild§]

I was about to order Topping E30 but now I know the "sweet spot" for dacs stands at 2k USD.

 

[MSTARK]

That's probably the main reason why people are getting frustrated with you. The point, they are trying to make, is that the "lesser gear" most likely already exceed the thresholds of human hearing, meaning that there's no more "micro-details" to be had. Of course you can only be 100% sure if you have first hand experience with the product, but in this case the odds of it making a difference are so low, that it would be a needless waste of time.

And I thought you were the numbers/data kinda crowd? And that’s my main beef with some of you guys. Crap on it after testing if it doesn’t confirm to your standards. Not “most likely. Odds are”.
Again, I don’t care how good or bad this DAC is. It’s not about the product (sometimes it targets people) but this arrogant groupthink mentality resulting in dismissal of “questionable views” or products that likely won’t appeal to the “cult” base. Choice of words might be a bit to strong tho.
I’m not the only person who noticed this fan club mentality (crap on anything and anyone who doesn’t wave our flag). And to be honest, I don’t think it’s helping this site. I’ll let you crap on me as long as you wish. In the meantime, have a nice day.

 

[raistlin65]

And I thought you were the numbers/data kinda crowd? And that’s my main beef with some of you guys. Crap on it after testing if it doesn’t confirm to your standards. Not “most likely. Odds are”.
Again, I don’t care how good or bad this DAC is. It’s not about the product (sometimes it targets people) but this arrogant groupthink mentality resulting in dismissal of “questionable views” or products that likely won’t appeal to the “cult” base.

You keep ignoring the main reason that people on ASR would never consider that DAC.

Let's assume that it also measures so accurate that it achieves transparency.

What is it about that DAC that makes it worth five times or more than the best $300 DACs based on ASR measurements?

So pony up with an argument that makes a decent case for its price/performance value. If you can't come up with a good rationale for that, your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[watchnerd]

What is it about that DAC that makes it worth five times or more than the best $300 DACs based on ASR measurements?

So pony up with an argument that makes a decent case for its price/performance value.

I think it's okay to buy things that have bad price/performance value if you like them for reasons other than performance.

For example, if you really like the look of McIntosh blue VU meters -- go ahead and pay for that if it floats your boat.

 

[raistlin65]

I think it's okay to buy things that have bad price/performance value if you like them for reasons other than performance.

For example, if you really like the look of McIntosh blue VU meters -- go ahead and pay for that if it floats your boat.

People are welcome to buy whatever they want. But let's not call audio equipment "best" when it's way overpriced for its audio performance and other features.

 

[richard12511]

In the end; I think to each their own. Currawong for example reviewed Topping D90; clearly a well measured DAC that has gotten Rave reviews everywhere; and in his review; he said while it's good; it doesn't compete with some of his higher end stuff; one of which was Audio DG; but in that review he directly compared it with Schiit Bifrost 2 and it was clear he preferred the Bifrost 2; What gives?? To each their own. I'll continue to love my RME.

Most likely he's just being tricked by placebo. Those are two well designed DACs, so they sound exactly the same. Any differences he's hearing are most likely not due to the sound waves entering his ears.

 

[watchnerd]

Most likely he's just being tricked by placebo. Those are two well designed DACs, so they sound exactly the same. Any differences he's hearing are most likely not due to the sound waves entering his ears.

Or minor differences in level matching.

 

[Vini darko]

And I thought you were the numbers/data kinda crowd? And that’s my main beef with some of you guys. Crap on it after testing if it doesn’t confirm to your standards. Not “most likely. Odds are”.
Again, I don’t care how good or bad this DAC is. It’s not about the product (sometimes it targets people) but this arrogant groupthink mentality resulting in dismissal of “questionable views” or products that likely won’t appeal to the “cult” base. Choice of words might be a bit to strong tho.
I’m not the only person who noticed this fan club mentality (crap on anything and anyone who doesn’t wave our flag). And to be honest, I don’t think it’s helping this site. I’ll let you crap on me as long as you wish. In the meantime, have a nice day.

The cult of Adss will tolerate no questions. The heretics shall be purged with science and wrath.
Give thanks ye of faith , the heresy of subjectivisum shall be broken with snarky comments and pretty graphs.

 

[GeorgeWalk]

What I believe is this...
- <<<Lots of stuff.....>>>>

-With all that said; I don't see why go around hating someone else for a choice they have made; were they rude? were they misinformed? do you think they were paid off and thus not reliable? Or is the hate simply they ended up choosing a product that likely won't measure well; but to them subjectively sounds better and the hate really is more of the choice than of the person...on the internet, this is everywhere.. I like Marvel; another person likes DC....when discussing their movies, same thing, someone hates someone else for the choice they made.

No one here, at least that I have seen, is hating anyone for the choices they have made when buying equipment. This is a site devoted to objective measurements as the starting point to make a decision about audio gear. Having objective measurements give you a way of comparing the quality of the sound you are looking for. Not all great measuring gear is going to sound great to everyone; just as some poor measuring gear may sound good to someone else. Enjoy it.

What is being criticized are the Youtube Audiophiles that claim equipment sounds more musical, or rounded, or flat, or melodic, or whatever epicurean phrases sound impressive. If you come here, come for the measurements. If you want bloviating adjectives go to subjective Youtubers.

 

[richard12511]

How many on here actually heard this dac?

Personally, I don't believe DACs are hearable in the first place(unless they're terrible), so don't really see how "hearing" it even matters.

 

[richard12511]

Sounds different then what?

The cheapest DAC I know of that has perfect sound quality beyond the limits of human hearing is the $9 Apple dongle. Given that it's impossible to sound better than that DAC, you could say that any DAC that sounds different is worse.

 

[raistlin65]

The cheapest DAC I know of that has perfect sound quality beyond the limits of human hearing is the $9 Apple dongle. Given that it's impossible to sound better than that DAC, you could say that any DAC that sounds different is worse.

Which makes it fair to disparage a DAC that costs 175 times more if it doesn't offer much in additional utility.

 

[vhild§]

I think it's okay to buy things that have bad price/performance value if you like them for reasons other than performance.

Like overpriced mechanical watches?
Disclaimer: I´m one of those.

 

[watchnerd]

Like overpriced mechanical watches?
Disclaimer: I´m one of those.

Totally.

Or vintage sports cars. Or whiskey.

 

[Harmonie]

[QUOTE="GeorgeWalk, post: 495120, member: 9507"]No one here, at least that I have seen, is hating anyone for the choices they have made when buying equipment.
....
Not all great measuring gear is going to sound great to everyone; just as some poor measuring gear may sound good to someone else.
Enjoy it.

These 2 paragraphs are very important IMO.
Totally opposed to what MSTARK is implying ...

@MSTARK

It's written, stated and registered.
Hope that you accept it.

 

[Killingbeans]

And I thought you were the numbers/data kinda crowd? And that’s my main beef with some of you guys. Crap on it after testing if it doesn’t confirm to your standards. Not “most likely. Odds are”.

It's not about numbers or data. It's about what the numbers and data can tell us. Some of them can tell us what is and what isn't relatively safe to assume. I have no standards. All I care about is to keep the amount BS in a discussion at a minimum.

Again, I don’t care how good or bad this DAC is.

Me neither. That's the whole point.

I’m not the only person who noticed this fan club mentality (crap on anything and anyone who doesn’t wave our flag). And to be honest, I don’t think it’s helping this site.

Yes, people do get carried away. But it's hard not to do so when you join a like minded crowd. Also, people who are into technical nerdy thing aren't usually good at smooth-talking. We normally leave that part to those who work in sales or advertising. Sometimes when people seem to be insolent, it's just frustration from seeing a perfectly good point being dismissed without consideration.

I’ll let you crap on me as long as you wish.

I do not wish to crap on you. If I have given you that impression, I do apologize.

 

[paddycrow]

My two cents- the criticism of the posted review early in the thread is not a knock on the product. The criticism was that the review declared it the DAC of the year without providing any data. IMO, that is a valid criticism.

Based on Amir's review of the Denafrips Ares II, I would expect the Pontus to perform at least as well. As such, I don't believe it could be differentiated from any of the DACs with similar measurements in a blind test. So the sticking point is the price, which would make it among the most expensive DACs in the index. I appreciate fit/finish and appearance are factors in choosing a product, and I am willing to pay more to get it (that should be obvious by the equipment I own). I can also accept the POV that the Pontus is overpriced.

 

[watchnerd]

[QUOTE="GeorgeWalk, post: 495120, member: 9507"] just as some poor measuring gear may sound good to someone else.
Enjoy it.

All of my analog gear (LP, reel-to-reel) measures poorly compared to my digital gear.

My small collection of tube gear measures poorly compared to my solid state gear.

I still have fun with and enjoy all of them.

 

[zacster]

I was about to order Topping E30 but now I know the "sweet spot" for dacs stands at 2k USD.

I just got one, and well the sweet spot starts at $129!