The audiophile mindset

[ralphf]

a lot of people who know a lot, don't know what they don't know.

That is very true, but the unfortunate part is that they don't know that they don't know what they don't know.

 

[pkane]

That is very true, but the unfortunate part is that they don't know that they don't know what they don't know.

The question is how do you know this? You need to at least know as much or more than someone before you can presume to know where their knowledge ends.

 

[ralphf]

The day I bought my first CD player I nearly tossed my vinyl and turntable out the window. No comparison. I grew up when LP was still pretty new. CD was so instantly superior I felt I'd been released from prison.

. I remember looking very much forward to CD but not really loving the sound. Sounded flat and lifeless to me. Music never sounded as good as when it did when i was young. I wonder how much of the love of vinyl comes from our past experience when our hearing was much better.

 

[raistlin65]

The question is how do you know this? You need to at least know as much or more than someone before you can presume to know where their knowledge ends.

It's not too hard when they say, "Measurements don't tell the whole story." As if (a) every objectivist believes measurements always tell the whole story, and (b) this can always be applied whenever the audiophile disagrees with the measurements.

 

[mcdonalk]

The proverbial audiophile really takes a verbal beating on this forum. In my local audio club, I am among the most technically astute, having had a lengthy electronics design career. I have often lamented the situation of my club members, many of whom have no technical knowledge whatsoever, or the ability to understand it even when presented with same. Many are ripe targets for local audio dealers, and for Youtube commentators. I built my own audio server, whereas an associate acquired an Innuous device to provide this function, at considerable cost beyond what I paid. But in his case, given his technical and IT knowledge (none), I think that he made a good choice. It works well for him.

Furthermore, I have visited the homes of two members on several occasions and have listened to their systems. In spite of their lack of education in this particular field, they have each managed to assemble systems that perform very well. One could question the cost effectiveness of their decisions, but I have not asked them about that out of courtesy. What I learned from this is that there is more than one strategy with which to effectively achieve the goal of assembling a nice system.

As an aside, I have sometimes directed members to this forum for information, but the products reviewed here are of limited selection since they must be loaned by users, and the club members are often put off by the nasty tone of this forum and feel that their investigations are best conducted elsewhere.

 

[Roland]

Unfortunately 6 pages of rubbishing audiophiles is starting to look a bit like desperate self-confirmation. There are those who buy avrs then add power amps even though they know there is no sonic advantage in doing so, but like audiophiles they exhibit perceptual bias that they “need more power” or must “ease the load on the avr”, or secretly believe that >100db sinad sounds better. Just as audiophiles believe that pmc fact 12s sound good because they cost so much.

 

[MusicNBeer]

I have no problem with the proverbial audiophile. I love fancy gear and vinyl myself. My rant is against the arrogant ones spewing lies and misinformation. Yes, you are right though, I see objectivist types that are just as arrogant ranting against vinyl and DACs with a mere 100dB sinad.

 

[David Harper]

Unfortunately 6 pages of rubbishing audiophiles is starting to look a bit like desperate self-confirmation. There are those who buy avrs then add power amps even though they know there is no sonic advantage in doing so, but like audiophiles they exhibit perceptual bias that they “need more power” or must “ease the load on the avr”, or secretly believe that >100db sinad sounds better. Just as audiophiles believe that pmc fact 12s sound good because they cost so much.

I bought an AVR and later added a power amp not because I thought it would sound better but because the AVR kept overheating and shutting down when driving my magnepan speakers. The power amp doesn't.

 

[pkane]

Unfortunately 6 pages of rubbishing audiophiles is starting to look a bit like desperate self-confirmation. There are those who buy avrs then add power amps even though they know there is no sonic advantage in doing so, but like audiophiles they exhibit perceptual bias that they “need more power” or must “ease the load on the avr”, or secretly believe that >100db sinad sounds better. Just as audiophiles believe that pmc fact 12s sound good because they cost so much.

I went the other way. Bought an AVR, hooked to monster-sized, class A power amps. After a while, I figured out that the AVR had no problem driving the speakers directly, all 7.1 channels, so the amps are now in the basement, and the AVR has been great for the past 4-5 years. Evidence of perceptual bias, you think?

 

[anphex]

I went the other way. Bought an AVR, hooked to monster-sized, class A power amps. After a while, I figured out that the AVR had no problem driving the speakers directly, all 7.1 channels, so the amps are now in the basement, and the AVR has been great for the past 4-5 years. Evidence of perceptual bias, you think?

I had a pretty similar experience. I firmly believed that for my expensive new speakers you need a good, high power amp and my Denon 6400H won't cut it in the long run. After having a 2,5k Class D amp from Nubert and a 1,5k Class H from Emotiva I noticed that it wasn't an improvement, it even was sounding worse. The Class D was harsh, the Class H sounded compressed. Plugged back into my Denon AVR and the sound is just fine. When it breaks down some time in the future I will just get another Denon as long as they stay Class AB. Still way cheaper than a processor and power amp for multiple grand.

 

[Ken1951]

Didn't buy a power amp for my Front L/R speakers. Had it for ages when it started life running my MG-2Bs. It works great and I haven't needed to buy a more expensive AVR.

 

[audio2design]

I will apologize in advance for this distasteful and offensive (to me at least) post, which are not my words, but the words of Ken Hotte of Teo Audio, a supplier of audio cables. Ken is a real "special" type of person. This is what we are dealing with in the audiophile world,

teo_audio (aka Ken Hotte of Teo Audio)
05-25-2021 12:43pm

It’s a threshold thing. Kinda sorta maybe. but valid as ideas in points of consideration may go.

It reminds me of the digital projector vs CRT projector aspects of visual quality.

When digital projectors finally became ’good enough’ they took over the market. simply as they were ’good enough’ for the ’average set of senses’.

Digital projection was NOT good enough for the ’usually good peak senses of the smaller percentage of the crowd --which consisted of highly capable viewers’.

20 years later, the average digital projector is still not as good as the best CRT projector. More pixels, yes, but still not peak image fidelity.

Note that when I say that, the ’average viewer’ ..and then move to audio....some...with their ’average hearing’ can sometimes feel insulted, when no insult was intended or given.

But we ARE dealing with things that involve the core of self expression and being, in the realm of breeding and intent of the body itself and it’s inner directives.

Directives that shape thought and emotion, internally and in the outerworld as one relates to said outer world. Mediocrity will kill (literally kill) the exceptional, under the right circumstances, if given the chance. Always has, always will.

Then add in that we all hear differently, literally, as we are self wired though our own listening from the beginnings of our life to our current state and that was definitely an individual path.

Then we add in that each hearing bit or mechanical aspect of the ear and brain are individual and only similar to one another. then add in that the brain of people is either faster and more complex and enabled ..vs... not so much..

Then we get to jealously unrealized and hatred unrealized.. when someone says they hear something that others do not. like fuses and cables and subtleties of music in given specific circumstances. circumstances that can seemingly be as varied as the number of atoms in existence.

Direct comparisons are literally not possible between two people. they can only be averaged and talked about.

Which leads to the projection that in order to be safe in my emotional aspect of self, I must strike down the person who might be more hearing and listening capable than me. I must remove all doubt and dismiss them as nutbars, viva the mechanism I have at hand. Where their nails, well.. look like nails to my singular limited depth inner hammer.

Which can and usually does encompass the wholly incorrect projection of the tenants and methods of science as inviolate laws (engineers taught his away for simplicity’s sake.. for a less complex mindset intent of academic and occupational result), projected upon a unknown complex situation as dogmatic truths that must be followed. So I can be safe again, to know and exist in knowing - and be safe. For me to retard science and fit it to the desired task at hand.

Since it is all in print and no one knows who I am, I can indulge in my inner self and put it on the monitor and crush the other bits of text that challenges my internal ideals of self and being. Crime without costs, without price. the ancient art of inseminating females (via being desirable to said female) and running away..the depths of that coming to the fore in the unconscious desire to exist as.. in the animal parts of my expression. And more which is akin and relates to that, to form a swirling mess of projection in the self..

Expression without cost to self. Without price, price that should be there and generally is. Where forums in written form have broken that all essential aspect that makes societies work.

Emotional release at the cost of all other. Jerking off in public with no sense of society or involved culture. Animal and child levels of self indulgence, as the internet and forums have taught me how to live and exist as. The pathology of psychosis. Psychopath.

The audio naysayer existing as lesser capable persons in their projections in psychopathology.

sucks, but its true. happens every day. All day long on audio forums.

the kinder folks who put up with it all day long and gently try to navigate it in others, are the saints.

The sinners (purposeful choice of words, to make sure the barb is real), are the ones who form walled forums, state themselves as nay sayers... and then inject ’warriors’ into other forums to try and tear them down. the animal side of being human. the lesser animal side, no less. Psychopathic dogma and religion in a group mind.

When the complexity of the question at hand, the nut to crack open to solve the unsolvable problem at hand... becomes one of intelligence, capacity, awareness and innate physical capacity in the senses.

Since the answer involves peak aspects of humans the attacking group is HIGHLY unlikely to ever solve it, except at the individual level ...some trickling in, some trickling out. The group will remain a monkey level clan connection. Primitive and projecting.

Tough sledding for all involved.

Essentially... the thread is a problem in psychology, in individual expression... and has precious little to do with anything else.

 

[pkane]

I will apologize in advance for this distasteful and offensive (to me at least) post, which are not my words, but the words of Ken Hotte of Teo Audio, a supplier of audio cables. Ken is a real "special" type of person. This is what we are dealing with in the audiophile world,

What a word salad! I am concerned about the mental state of a person who writes like this. And all that just to say "my ears are golden and you all are evil and the enemy of a civilized society if you don't believe me."

 

[audio2design]

What a word salad! I am concerned about the mental state of a person who writes like this. And all that just to say "my ears are golden and you all are evil and the enemy of a civilized society if you don't believe me."

You should see some of his other doozies. There was recently a thread there that started because Schitt opened up a facility in Texas, which then became a very vitriolic political discussion. What was interesting, was that the "my ears" crowd were not exclusive to one political side, though perhaps a touch more right wing. What they had in common no matter the side was extreme positions lacking nuance.

 

[audiofooled]

What a word salad! I am concerned about the mental state of a person who writes like this. And all that just to say "my ears are golden and you all are evil and the enemy of a civilized society if you don't believe me."