The audio hobby is a terrible financial decision.

[Paul7777x]

That's kind of sad - isn't it?

Why?

If 90dB, say, isn’t enough, then your room must be pretty big and you’re sitting far away?

 

[PristineSound]

Why?

If 90dB, say, isn’t enough, then your room must be pretty big and you’re sitting far away?

I can't imagine people listening above 85dB without hearing damage over the long term.

I'm at 75db normally.

 

[Paul7777x]

I don’t have a calibrated means of measuring the SPL in my listening, but I’m guessing it’s about the same or effectively so.

I should get round to finding out I suppose. Just out of interest.

 

[Oddball]

I can't imagine people listening above 85dB without hearing damage over the long term.

I'm at 75db normally.

It really depends on the room and listening habits. 85dB will be 75dB if you go far enough in a big room.

But more importantly, it is not about the long term hearing damage. It is about the short term ability to perform at concert levels. That is what makes audio exciting. Listening to meh levels is what we do for the most part, as we do want to keep our listening organs in good shape, but if there is no way to splash at times, then sorry, it is a really sad story.

 

[PristineSound]

It really depends on the room and listening habits. 85dB will be 75dB if you go far enough in a big room.

But more importantly, it is not about the long term hearing damage. It is about the short term ability to perform at concert levels. That is what makes audio exciting. Listening to meh levels is what we do for the most part, as we do want to keep our listening organs in good shape, but if there is no way to splash at times, then sorry, it is a really sad story.

I don't disagree. I'm in a local audio group, many of the members have suffered enough hearing loss that I am looking at them and I'm like, nah, I really don't want to be like them when I'm their age.

But yes, I do enjoy high SPL every now and then, but I really try not to too often.

 

[Robin L]

Oh, speaking of audio and poor investment acumen:
It doesn't take much analytical prowess to notice that the fastest-depreciating audio hardware, by category (and not necessarily in order) are 'tweaks' (more to the point: wires, which were to become both commodities and esoteric platforms for "continuous improvement" ) and loudspeakers.

For loudspeakers, I think the driver (no pun intended) for the quick depreciation is de gustibus non est disputandum. Especially the vaunted loudspeakers of yore (e.g., the Klipsch LaScala) are deeply, frightfully idiosyncratic in their reproduction of audio. Folks chase the dragon, buying the darlings of the day or whatever catches their ear, then flipping them when the next fad comes along. I suspect the homogenization of loudspeaker performance in recent years may put an end to that (just as the SUV market for cars has largely become a cesspool of me-too mediocrity).

Here's the funny thing to me: Cables. We toss Nordost under the buss, I mean bus and for good reason. The MSRP of their statement products is eye-watering. Such products, anecdotally (!), don't hold their value very well. There's a whole segment of audio hobbyists who swear by esoteric wires, but would never, ever, ever pay list price for them! So, the used market is hot. What puzzles me: who's buying these cables new and thus catalyzing the brisk trade in used wires?

Speaking from the cheap seats here, but around 2010 I was finding a lot of used HT gear at the local AMVETs, the nicest thrift in Fresno at the time. Earlier, before the vinyl revival, I could find goodies like minty white label promos of Creedance Clearwater Revival for $1 a pop. But my guess is that by 2010 a lot of people got tired of filling their living rooms with ugly electro-junk, came up with something that served their purposes better, perhaps a new toy one could talk to who would play your favorite music when you asked. I guess it turned out win-win. The front counter had big jars or plastic tubs filled with HT interconnects, a lot Monster-badged, top price $15 a pair, some up to 15' long, very useful for those long runs to multiple powered subs, some fancy, some still in use in my system. Also from AMVETs, also for crazy prices, an OPPO DVD-a/SACD CD player, a couple of AVRs in the $50 range, and a 5. set of Infinity Primus speakers for $80.

Now here I am, devout cheapskate, reformed audiophile, bottom of the audiophile food chain. But once upon a time, before my meds were properly adjusted, I was a true believer in the farthest fields of audiofoolery, such things as Bybee Quantum Purifiers and Silver-Clad Copper Crystal Wire. I got to know people who made a living selling such things. I got to hear some of the most expensive gear available around 1998, maybe not as crazy as what's out there now, but about as far as it got back then. When I asked the most credible of the bunch who designs the high-priced spread—"who buys this shit?"—his response was, in essence—"You don't want to know."

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

You don't "invest" in speakers or amps or CDs or records. You fucking buy them.

At one point in my life I invested a fair amount of money in speakers, amps, microphones, processing, etc. I made it all back and then more by using it professionally. Of course, at the end of its useful life I either sold it for pennies on the dollar, gave it away, or it's still taking up space in the garage. As an investment it paid "dividends" in the form or allowing me to make a living (and buy a nice house that I still live in) using it. I had no illusions that any of it would increase in value, although I think I have a few microphones that are worth about what I paid for them, but inflation will have eaten away at that dollar figure.

If you're just buying gear in hopes that some greater fool will come along and pay more for it later, that's not investing, that's speculating. Some folks have made money by speculating, but most people don't. And anything that is marketed as "collectable" when it's new will never increase in value.

 

[Paul7777x]

I categorically reject this encroachment of "investment" into domains properly defined as "buying."

You don't "invest" in speakers or amps or CDs or records. You fucking buy them.

I’ve written some stuff on this thread.

But I should have said this last line.



Nuff said.

 

[Ropeburn]

I don't invest in gear or its value, I invest in the happiness that music brings. Important distinction.

 

[DSJR]

That's kind of sad - isn't it?

That's (retired) life I guess.

 

[Joe Smith]

Watch those ears, folks, that’s my advice. Apart from hearing loss itself, tinnitus is no joke!

 

[Oddball]

That's (retired) life I guess.

It's only as sad as you allow it to be. Plenty to do if you look around.

 

[DMill]

Typically in any hobby scarcity drives costs. An original pristine album from 50 years ago might be worth a couple hundred bucks. If it’s signed by Miles Davis it could be worth a LOT more. Same with gear I suppose, For example, this is the turntable that sat in John Lennon’s apartment in NYC and you have the proof it might be worth a ton to the right buyer. But I find it very difficult to believe that rolling mass produced gear is a winning proposition. Even if you are incredibly lucky you are mostly doing it because you enjoy trying new things and aren’t trying to pay the mortgage that way.

 

[Timcognito]

Even if you are incredibly lucky you are mostly doing it because you enjoy trying new things and aren’t trying to pay the mortgage that way.

And you are a music lover which many are and many are happy with just their phones and Spotify.

 

[Dialectic]

I reckon that this hobby, HiFi Audio, is a terrible hobby financially.

At least with hobbies like mechanical watch, or cars, there is a chance some collectibles may hold on to its value and some may go up in value.

With audio, Gosh, have you tried to sell in the used market post-COVID? It's a disaster.

EDIT: See post #4 for further clarification

I've owned some very expensive gear and have lost a total of less than $10,000 on audio after over 20 years in the hobby. I also spent several thousand dollars on a non-transferable license to use BACCH software, which was money very well spent.

Cars and watches require maintenance and special insurance.

As far as I can tell, audio is cheaper than cars, watches, golf, skiing, or certain fitness-related pursuits.

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

As far as I can tell, audio is cheaper than cars, watches, golf, skiing, or certain fitness-related pursuits.

I guess it depends on how you count. My speakers were more expensive than my skis. But I don't need to buy a lift ticket to listen to my speakers. (ignoring for the moment the 7 pairs of speakers and 5 pairs of skis in current usage)

I don't play golf very often, but at $20 a round it's fairly cheap entertainment, about what I pay per day for ski lift tickets. I don't think I've paid more than $100 total for all the watches I've bought in my entire life.

As a 16 year old, my first stereo was more expensive than my first car. But my last several cars were a lot more than my hifi systems cost.

 

[Dialectic]

I guess it depends on how you count. My speakers were more expensive than my skis. But I don't need to buy a lift ticket to listen to my speakers. (ignoring for the moment the 7 pairs of speakers and 5 pairs of skis in current usage)

I don't play golf very often, but at $20 a round it's fairly cheap entertainment, about what I pay per day for ski lift tickets. I don't think I've paid more than $100 total for all the watches I've bought in my entire life.

As a 16 year old, my first stereo was more expensive than my first car. But my last several cars were a lot more than my hifi systems cost.

Where can you play golf at $20 per round?

The course three houses down from me has a six-figure initiation fee and mid-five-figure annual dues. I've never heard of actual golf at $20/round, which is a price I would feel likelier to pay for a child's miniature golf round.

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

Where can you play golf at $20 per round?

The two city golf courses and the metroparks courses cost $16 to $20 midweek for the senior rate. That's ten courses, plus there are several other nearby for-profit courses that have similar rates. I understand it's more expensive elsewhere, but I'm not willing to pay more than $20 for an activity I don't really like all that much. YMMV.

And if you are curious about how I ski for $20 a day, it's all about the mega passes and volume.

 

[wadude]

The first good hifi I had was a Marantz 1030, Pioneer PL12D and a pair of Noname two ways. If I’d known about Advent/3s at the time I could have bypassed this whole darned hobby.

 

[MAB]

I categorically reject this encroachment of "investment" into domains properly defined as "buying."

You don't "invest" in speakers or amps or CDs or records. You fucking buy them.

Yes to this^^

What an odd thread on ASR. A site where the top-rated speaker (if you go by rankings) costs $3125 each and are self powered. KH120 mkII for $999. AsciLab F6B for a bit more than $400 plus a decent amp and whatever DAC that doesn't cost mega. All three of these (for example) in the top 20 of over 300 speakers reviewed.

If people are making terrible financial decisions despite ASR then maybe they use the forum as a gateway to chase SINAD. It can become a terrible financial decision at that point, all for inaudible gains.

Lots of members here have systems that sound fantastic that are well within reasonable budget.

Also, audio as a hobby and ASR aren't just about buying stuff.

Edit: typo