The audio hobby is a terrible financial decision.

[Mr. Swordfish]

The local vintage hi-fi store has some interesting offerings. The clientelle would seem to be baby boomers who recall the gear they wanted in the 70s but couldn't afford. Now that we can afford it (well some of us anyway) it's there for the taking.

Very cool place to visit (as in museum) but I can't say I am at all tempted. But somebody is making something off reselling vintage gear. It's just probably not you.

 

[mhardy6647]

Oh, speaking of audio and poor investment acumen:
It doesn't take much analytical prowess to notice that the fastest-depreciating audio hardware, by category (and not necessarily in order) are 'tweaks' (more to the point: wires, which were to become both commodities and esoteric platforms for "continuous improvement" ) and loudspeakers.

For loudspeakers, I think the driver (no pun intended) for the quick depreciation is de gustibus non est disputandum. Especially the vaunted loudspeakers of yore (e.g., the Klipsch LaScala) are deeply, frightfully idiosyncratic in their reproduction of audio. Folks chase the dragon, buying the darlings of the day or whatever catches their ear, then flipping them when the next fad comes along. I suspect the homogenization of loudspeaker performance in recent years may put an end to that (just as the SUV market for cars has largely become a cesspool of me-too mediocrity).

Here's the funny thing to me: Cables. We toss Nordost under the buss, I mean bus and for good reason. The MSRP of their statement products is eye-watering. Such products, anecdotally (!), don't hold their value very well. There's a whole segment of audio hobbyists who swear by esoteric wires, but would never, ever, ever pay list price for them! So, the used market is hot. What puzzles me: who's buying these cables new and thus catalyzing the brisk trade in used wires?

 

[wadude]

The local vintage hi-fi store has some interesting offerings. The clientelle would seem to be baby boomers who recall the gear they wanted in the 70s but couldn't afford. Now that we can afford it (well some of us anyway) it's there for the taking.

Very cool place to visit (as in museum) but I can't say I am at all tempted. But somebody is making something off reselling vintage gear. It's just probably not you.

The seventies stuff, “my era” is the least interesting to me. If I’m going vintage it’s late fifties/early sixties tubes, especially power amps. The combination of vintage tube power and modern source is/was a sweet spot for me until the last set of tubes came due.

I can only imagine coming to a personal reckoning of seeing little carved wooden blocks on my interconnects. =blush=

 

[DanielT]

The seventies stuff, “my era” is the least interesting to me. If I’m going vintage it’s late fifties/early sixties tubes, especially power amps. The combination of vintage tube power and modern source is/was a sweet spot for me until the last set of tubes came due.

I can only imagine coming to a personal reckoning of seeing little carved wooden blocks on my interconnects. =blush=

Then you have this tube amp classic, which can be found in the link @Mr. Swordfish referred to in #121:

Harman Kardon Citation II - Muse Audio Service

RESTORED AND WARRANTIED FOR 90 DAYS Power output: 60 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo) Frequency response: 18Hz to 40kHz Total harmonic distortion: 0.5% Damping factor: 18 Input sensitivity: 1.5V Signal to noise ratio: 90dB Speaker load impedance: 4Ω to 16Ω Valve complement: 4 x KT88, 6...

muse.audio

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I categorically reject this encroachment of "investment" into domains properly defined as "buying."

You don't "invest" in speakers or amps or CDs or records. You fucking buy them.

 

[MatrixS2000]

There's a whole segment of audio hobbyists who swear by esoteric wires, but would never, ever, ever pay list price for them! So, the used market is hot. What puzzles me: who's buying these cables new and thus catalyzing the brisk trade in used wires?

And you would think that these used wires would be more expensive, since they are now broken in and magically locked into that ideal burned in state forever….

 

[MatrixS2000]

I categorically reject this encroachment of "investment" into domains properly defined as "buying."

You don't "invest" in speakers or amps or CDs or records. You fucking buy them.

Add physical media too.

 

[Roland68]

I reckon that this hobby, HiFi Audio, is a terrible hobby financially.

At least with hobbies like mechanical watch, or cars, there is a chance some collectibles may hold on to its value and some may go up in value.

With audio, Gosh, have you tried to sell in the used market post-COVID? It's a disaster.

EDIT: See post #4 for further clarification

It is absolutely absurd to view hobbies as financial investments. Really, only husbands and nerds do that to justify their hobbies.
Watches are a good example. Among my friends and acquaintances, 95% of the watches purchased as investments have plummeted in value, suffering huge losses over a period of 35 years.
The same thing happens time and again with many other collecting hobbies—Kinder Surprise toys, art, jewelry (branded items), Lego, Snickers, etc.

Even with decades of experience, no one can predict with 100% certainty which items will retain or increase in value, or when and for how long that might happen.
Especially when buying new items, you have to assume they will immediately lose at least 30% of their value.
For the value to rise again, a lot of factors have to align: high technical value, high sentimental value, low production numbers, limited availability, and far more interested buyers than available items.

In the audio sector specifically, I consider an increase in value for expensive items to be completely unrealistic.
There may be exceptions, but certainly not many.
In fact, my CD player collection has at least doubled in value over the last 6–8 years, though that will likely drop again. However, we are talking about players in the €50–€300 range (used). With more expensive units, it would have resulted in a loss on average.
But I don't own my CD player collection for the sake of making a profit.

But if you ever want to try out truly expensive hobbies, I’d recommend things like RC F5B—with the goal of competing—or RC quadcopter racing, or RC F3C/F3N/F5C, and so on.
Be prepared for five-figure annual budgets (and not at the low end of that range), and don't expect to see any of that money back.
That’s what a hobby is.

 

[wadude]

Then you have this tube amp classic, which can be found in the link @Mr. Swordfish referred to in #121:
View attachment 538769View attachment 538770

Harman Kardon Citation II - Muse Audio Service

RESTORED AND WARRANTIED FOR 90 DAYS Power output: 60 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo) Frequency response: 18Hz to 40kHz Total harmonic distortion: 0.5% Damping factor: 18 Input sensitivity: 1.5V Signal to noise ratio: 90dB Speaker load impedance: 4Ω to 16Ω Valve complement: 4 x KT88, 6...

muse.audio

View attachment 538772View attachment 538773View attachment 538774

That ship has sailed for me but I still appreciate the attraction. If my next investment in the lottery pays off then maybe….

 

[RexrothPigeon]

It is absolutely absurd to view hobbies as financial investments. Really, only husbands and nerds do that to justify their hobbies.

Preach

 

[Oddball]

D&D 8C? I'd put them in the former category of tools to reproduce music as properly as possible... Surely a mere 'hobbyist' wouldn't buy something like these?

Apologies folks. @Mart68 will understand I'm sure about this, as I've often railed in the past about the serial box swappers that have frequented UK audio forums and even when working within the industry, I could never understand how otherwise capable gear wouldn't last more than a few months with some - and these people lost thousands chopping and changing, but it didn't seem to matter to them.

As good as 8c's are they will compress heavily at life-like volume. So a good tool for most but not all. Much better solutions for ones that do want to take concert at home.

 

[MattHooper]

I dunno man, my current stereo was like 1500 total or less, and it brings me great joy every day and will do so for long years to come. I consider that a great investment with terrific returns.

Joy is invaluable. The profit here is nominally infinite.

I spent far more money than that on my audio system.

And yet I have no reason to think that my system brings me more joy than yours does to you.

So you probably got the better “joy bargain.”


That doesn’t make me regret what I spent in the least. My system represents many years of fun exploring and finely honing the results to my (sometimes evolving) taste. So I get a lot more out of it than I do from just about any other system I’ve heard.

On the other hand, I can be hugely satisfied in other areas with items that would never satisfy a serious hobbyist. Like my bike which I love that only cost a few hundred bucks.

 

[PristineSound]

It is absolutely absurd to view hobbies as financial investments. Really, only husbands and nerds do that to justify their hobbies.
Watches are a good example. Among my friends and acquaintances, 95% of the watches purchased as investments have plummeted in value, suffering huge losses over a period of 35 years.
The same thing happens time and again with many other collecting hobbies—Kinder Surprise toys, art, jewelry (branded items), Lego, Snickers, etc.

Even with decades of experience, no one can predict with 100% certainty which items will retain or increase in value, or when and for how long that might happen.
Especially when buying new items, you have to assume they will immediately lose at least 30% of their value.
For the value to rise again, a lot of factors have to align: high technical value, high sentimental value, low production numbers, limited availability, and far more interested buyers than available items.

In the audio sector specifically, I consider an increase in value for expensive items to be completely unrealistic.
There may be exceptions, but certainly not many.
In fact, my CD player collection has at least doubled in value over the last 6–8 years, though that will likely drop again. However, we are talking about players in the €50–€300 range (used). With more expensive units, it would have resulted in a loss on average.
But I don't own my CD player collection for the sake of making a profit.

But if you ever want to try out truly expensive hobbies, I’d recommend things like RC F5B—with the goal of competing—or RC quadcopter racing, or RC F3C/F3N/F5C, and so on.
Be prepared for five-figure annual budgets (and not at the low end of that range), and don't expect to see any of that money back.
That’s what a hobby is.

Did you read post #4?

 

[JeffS7444]

True, but for larger projects, even if you are handy and have time?

Maybe it's a "labor of love"?

While they left big jobs such as roofing to specialists, my folks could be pretty strange when it came to manual labor, and seemed to equate toil with morality.

 

[Ropeburn]

I spent far more money than that on my audio system.

And yet I have no reason to think that my system brings me more joy than yours does to you.

So you probably got the better “joy bargain.”


That doesn’t make me regret what I spent in the least. My system represents many years of fun exploring and finely honing the results to my (sometimes evolving) taste. So I get a lot more out of it than I do from just about any other system I’ve heard.

On the other hand, I can be hugely satisfied in other areas with items that would never satisfy a serious hobbyist. Like my bike which I love that only cost a few hundred bucks.

Well, as I said the numbers are clear: if joy is invaluable and we both got lots of it, the profit is infinite by definition in both cases. You didn't get the worse deal. We both got infinite profit margin.

 

[wadude]

As good as 8c's are they will compress heavily at life-like volume. So a good tool for most but not all. Much better solutions for ones that do want to take concert at home.

I’ve been recognizing that concept in my ruminating over speaker choices. Room size impact on spl.

 

[DanielT]

Maybe it's a "labor of love"?

While they left big jobs such as roofing to specialists, my folks could be pretty strange when it came to manual labor, and seemed to equate toil with morality.

..."labor of love"..
It may have started that way but ended in hatred, or I should say irritation. Not only did the tiles,battens, downpipes (is that what they call it in English?) and gutters have to be replaced, but rotten wooden beams were discovered, plus a few other things. The kind of unexpected (for an amateur) extra that comes with a larger project.

The term "labor of love" also applies to my parents, especially my father.
To some extent, if not quite as much, for myself too.

 

[Tell]

I've been into audio since I was kid and now 3-4 decades later I probably spend maybe 3000 euro all together and then gained some of back when selling old stuff.
One seriously really doesn't need do spent that much at all for a great system if you know what you're doing, especially nowadays with all the great quite cheap speakers that have been released the last few years.

 

[DSJR]

As good as 8c's are they will compress heavily at life-like volume. So a good tool for most but not all. Much better solutions for ones that do want to take concert at home.

Thirty five years ago in my 'hifi hooligan days,' that would have been an issue - maybe... These days, it wouldn't matter at all

 

[Oddball]

Thirty five years ago in my 'hifi hooligan days,' that would have been an issue - maybe... These days, it wouldn't matter at all

That's kind of sad - isn't it?