THD has a much bigger effect on sound than you think

[pkane]

[

I tried with 250hz pure tone (I created with audacity) and your app worked just fine when assigning harmonics. Strange that using pma pure 1khz tone could cause such differences.

Anyway, is there a reason why using "L+R” option to save files would create files that sound much better than saving using “stereo”?

L+R is mono with left and right channels averaged together. Stereo is two channels processed independently.

 

[pma]

Your graph showed 0dbs fundamental, right? So if you entered -45db for h2, why your graph showed about -48?

Also, if you enter -99 for h4, why your graph showed about -103?

Because the input was -1 dBFS. Period. No more comments from my side. You should think thoroughly before you write something. You have blamed @pkane software for the faults it does not have. You should apologize to him.

 

[audio2design]

I have no idea what you're trying to do, but here's a 1kHz sinewave with distortions generated by DISTORT:

View attachment 160866


Here's the same 1kHz sinewave played back in a loopback after saving it into a file, measured by REW. Notice the magnitudes of harmonics in the top left corner. Seems exactly right, no?
View attachment 160865

You shouldn't be doing 0db tones then adding to them. Too much chance for intersample overs DAC dependent. These programs normally use floating point and won't show the issue.

 

[Killingbeans]

Sure, prove it and show us your own ABX results.

Why are you refusing to acknowledge the simple truth he's presenting to you?

You've concocted a test that contains none of the components needed for masking, and take that as proof of masking having no effect.
And then you insist on poor solderdude taking the same pointless test to verify the "proof".

You really can't see how nuts that makes you sound?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Because the input was -1 dBFS. Period. No more comments from my side. You should think throughly before you write something. You have blamed @pkane software for the faults it does not have. You should apologize to him.

I see. So your 1khz pure tone for the 0.85% tube abx was not at 0dbFS?

In that case, I was mistaken and I apologize to @pkane.

@pkane , the pure 1khz file I used is file2 from https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Npg8YFJAfRvqqN6lalsBjVAkHS2Q1lnd/view?usp=sharing

 

[Pdxwayne]

Why are you refusing to acknowledge the simple truth he's presenting to you?

You've concocted a test that contains none of the components needed for masking, and take that as proof of masking having no effect.
And then you insist on poor solderdude taking the same pointless test to verify the "proof".

You really can't see how nuts that makes you sound?

From:

Auditory masking - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Quote:
......
Gelfand provides a basic example.[1] Let us say that for a given individual, the sound of a cat scratching a post in an otherwise quiet environment is first audible at a level of 10 dB SPL. However, in the presence of a masking noise (for example, a vacuum cleaner that is running simultaneously) that same individual cannot detect the sound of the cat scratching unless the level of the scratching sound is at least 26 dB SPL. We would say that the unmasked threshold for that individual for the target sound (i.e., the cat scratching) is 10 dB SPL, while the masked threshold is 26 dB SPL. The amount of masking is simply the difference between these two thresholds: 16 dB.
......


So, a loud tone that is 60db louder than the second tone can mask the second tone. Isn't this count as mask?

 

[Jimbob54]

No.

You are trying to use a bunch of averages w.r.t crest factor and average ratio of bass to treble energy (should be mid band) and then makes the wild logical leap that that applies directly to a singular event in time.

It should be quite obvious it does not.

You are assuming that instantaneous treble tones 35 db down from a bass town are instantly evident (distortion is temperally colocated) and making the further assumption that something harmonically related another 15-20dd below that is detectable in music.

Let's kàeep the leaps of faith to the church. You statement of easily audible is just a leap of faith.

Laughing at Bass Town. Best typo this week.

 

[solderdude]

Sure, prove it and show us your own ABX results.

Why? you have already proven this test can be passed and that the 5th harmonic at that level can be heard so it clearly is not masked nor is it expected to be masked but granted... it is very near the masking threshold and when the fundamental would have been played at 100dB you certainly wouldn't hear the difference nor when you play the fundamental at 60dB SPL.
Theory says that it should be audible and you demonstrated that.
There is no mystery here.
Me doing the same test is not going to make the results any different will they ?

So, a loud tone that is 60db louder than the second tone can mask the second tone. Isn't this count as mask?

That depends on the frequency used, the SPL level used for the test, which harmonic it is, how quiet the background is.
So dependent on many factors the loud tone can mask a softer tone and under different circumstances it will not.

Also when you determined a threshold using continuous tones that doesn't mean with music the same thresholds are valid.

 

[Killingbeans]

So, a loud tone that is 60db louder than the second tone can mask the second tone. Isn't this count as mask?

Only if the mask is wide enough to cover the second tone.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Only if the mask is wide enough to cover the second tone.

When someone else makes a claim in ASR that "everyone" can hear the difference, would you at least ask an average hearing sensitivity person to test out the theory?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Why? you have already proven this test can be passed and that the 5th harmonic at that level can be heard so it clearly is not masked nor is it expected to be masked but granted... it is very near the masking threshold and when the fundamental would have been played at 100dB you certainly wouldn't hear the difference nor when you play the fundamental at 60dB SPL.
Theory says that it should be audible and you demonstrated that.
There is no mystery here.
Me doing the same test is not going to make the results any different will they ?



That depends on the frequency used, the SPL level used for the test, which harmonic it is, how quiet the background is.
So dependent on many factors the loud tone can mask a softer tone and under different circumstances it will not.

Also when you determined a threshold using continuous tones that doesn't mean with music the same thresholds are valid.

You claimed "everyone" can hear it.

What if I am one in a 100000 that could hear it and 99999 out of 100000 can't hear it?

Then your statement is false, right?

 

[pma]

some new honorifics

Based on number of posts?

 

[Jimbob54]

Based on number of posts?

I prefer to think they are based on some kind of auditory or technical supremacy. Or who's father is most proficient in a fist fight.

 

[Jimbob54]

You claimed "everyone" can hear it.

What if I am one in a 100000 that could hear it and 99999 out of 100000 can't hear it?

Then your statement is false, right?

You'd best get canvassing for 99999 volunteers then.

 

[pkane]

I prefer to think they are based on some kind of auditory or technical supremacy. Or who's father is most proficient in a fist fight.

Only an ABX duel to death can resolve this.

 

[AdamG]

Based on number of posts?

The title “Grand Contributor” is awarded when the Member achieves 10,000 posts. A remarkable achievement and contribution to our community.

 

[Chrispy]

You claimed "everyone" can hear it.

What if I am one in a 100000 that could hear it and 99999 out of 100000 can't hear it?

Then your statement is false, right?

Maybe false but pretty much still meaningless if you're cursed like that

 

[pkane]

You shouldn't be doing 0db tones then adding to them. Too much chance for intersample overs DAC dependent. These programs normally use floating point and won't show the issue.

DISTORT app doesn't do anything at 0dBFS -- it's up to the user to decide what signal to feed it as input and at what level. Internally, all computations are in 64-bit floating point, and any results that exceed 0dBFS are reported as clipping.

 

[Jimbob54]

The title “Grand Contributor” is awarded when the Member achieves 10,000 posts. A remarkable achievement and contribution to our community.

And a sure sign of a twisted mind.

 

[pkane]

And a sure sign of a twisted mind.

Isn't that a basic requirement to join ASR?