THD has a much bigger effect on sound than you think

[xaviescacs]

With half a brain and a little thought

I usually use about a 10% for this site in general, I have other stuff to do.

 

[mike7877]

I don't qualify I suppose.

You can take the edge off as well please.

No, just give it some thought!

 

[mike7877]

Who the fuck gives a shit about solid state electronics distortion?

Amir gives golfing panther award to DACs with horrendous ESS IMD humps no one gives a shit.

Lol

 

[NTK]

With half a brain and a little thought

Why don't you use @pkane's Distort and see how audible 0.1% THD is before making your proclamation?

 

[voodooless]

It should be really easy to prepare a set of test files that have this kind of distortion.. if it’s so obvious, an ABX test should be simple to ace!

 

[mike7877]

Why don't you use @pkane's Distort and see how audible 0.1% THD is before making your proclamation?

0.1% in the same octave? No Problemo!

0.1% edit: a few octaves up? Turns into 10%. Problem!!!!!!

 

[Killingbeans]

Discuss.

I'm not here to argue, I'm stating a fact. And I'm done

I'm confused

 

[xaviescacs]

0.1% in the same octave? No Problemo!

0.1% 5 octaves up? Turns into 10%. Problem!!!!!!

10 % of what? 10 % of the energy at 5 octaves is distortion corresponding to lower harmonics of a bass note? I don't much about audio, but I do play the piano and if you play a C1, good luck hearing the C6 resonating...

 

[NTK]

0.1% in the same octave? No Problemo!

0.1% 5 octaves up? Turns into 10%. Problem!!!!!!

Then show the ABX results.

Wait. What produces a 0.1% HD5 HD32 (sorry, 5 octaves up will make it HD32) and nothing else?

 

[VintageFlanker]

I'm not here to argue, I'm stating a fact. And I'm done

May I ask why opening a thread if you intend to go for a monologue?

 

[voodooless]

So here is the average spectrum of a bunch of commercial music between 1950 and 2010. At 1kHz is not even 20dB down from <100 Hz. Btw, source is AES paper 8960.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Masking thresholds for a 1kHz tone masker at different levels masking tones.​

At 1 khz at high levels even the 5th harmonic is masked only 45 db down. It will also mask any lower level music in that area. You'll only hear the lower level higher frequency music when the main tone has gone down. So the fact the harmonic distortion might be closer to the level of music at the higher frequencies won't matter. It is all masked.

 

[Ron Texas]

I thought when a musical instrument makes a note, its not a pure tone. There are harmonics too.

 

[Robin L]

You do realise that THD is mostly second harmonic, and thus there is barely anything leaking anywhere.

You have better odds forming a hypothesis with inter modular distortion.

It's not, from what I have seen at this site. Often, third order distortion can be predominant.

 

[mike7877]

There are always many different tones playing in music, whether they're fundamentals or harmonics. Then on top of those, there are harmonics of each from distortion. Think of all the real low level harmonics (not distortion) from the fundamental notes made on instruments. These harmonics are what makes instruments sound different from one another. The real harmonics are at similar levels to what is generated by amplifier distortion when an amplifier with high THD is used (say 0.2% to be very safe). This is why you can't tell if something's an oboe or a clarinet with a crap amp. Sure, you can't say if the distortion is there or it's not there, but you also can't tell what instrument is playing, or if it's real or synthesized. Blurry vision.

An amp with a higher THD will never generate a sound image of an instrument which could be confused with the real thing

 

[Blumlein 88]

There are always many different tones playing in music, whether they're fundamentals or harmonics. Then on top of those, there are harmonics of each from distortion. Think of all the real low level harmonics (not distortion) from the fundamental notes made on instruments. These harmonics are what makes instruments sound different from one another. The real harmonics are at similar levels to what is generated by amplifier distortion when an amplifier with high THD is used (say 0.2% to be very safe). This is why you can't tell if something's an oboe or a clarinet with a crap amp. Sure, you can't say if the distortion is there or it's not there, but you also can't tell what instrument is playing, or if it's real or synthesized. Blurry vision.

An amp with a higher THD will never generate a sound image of an instrument which could be confused with the real thing

Yet, natural harmonics of higher frequency instruments as well as harmonics of distortion of lower frequency higher level sound will be masked at times by louder parts of the spectrum. I think this is why it isn't a problem in the way you imagine.

 

[abdo123]

(say 0.2% to be very safe).

Which amps have been recommended here with such THD levels? I have never seen Amir recommend something with 0.02% yet a long 0.2%

 

[mike7877]

Yet, natural harmonics of higher frequency instruments as well as harmonics of distortion of lower frequency higher level sound will be masked at times by louder parts of the spectrum. I think this is why it isn't a problem in the way you imagine.

Yes, sometimes masked, but not always masked. It's a problem

 

[abdo123]

It's not, from what I have seen at this site. Often, third order distortion can be predominant.

please demonstrate with data.

 

[mike7877]

Which amps have been recommended here with such THD levels? I have never seen Amir recommend something with 0.02% yet a long 0.2%

I know. I was just laughing at the other post because things which really aren't good get recommendations - it wasn't specific

let alone*