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Thank you and also first question

pvanosta

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First of all: a BIG thank you to Amir for saving me quite a bit of money on Cables, 'Audiophile' network switches and USB purifiers :)

After more than 30 years of 'Audiophilia Nervosa', I stumbled onto Amir's work thanks to a posting on the Devialet owners forum.
I was looking at info on Audiophile switches (Etherregen, Bonn Silent Angel N8 and English Electric) after reading several reviews in 'respected' High End magazines, thinking this might be a next step in the neverending quest for sonic Nitrvana.

My system:
Synology NAS with 26,000 albums / 450,000 tracks
Gigabit ethernet cabling everywhere (no Wifi in the A/V chain)
Roon ROCK on a fanless NUC
Devialet expert pro 440, used as Roon endpoint/streamer, DAC, pre and power amp
Marten Django XL speakers
Regular Cat7 cables for all ethernet connections
Speaker cables and SPDIF connection between the Devialet master and slave: Tubulus Argentus (a local Dutch brand with reasonably priced cables of good quality)

As I hit the brick wall of the law of diminishing returns (every component with an audible difference means a doubling of that component's cost), I still keep an eye open for potential tweaks and improvements, which brought me to read about cables, switches, etc.
Thankfully, I found Amir's video reviews, which saved me a good deal of money. (the clip about the expensive AQ RCA interconnect was also enlightening)

Now my question:
Do power conditioners fall under the same snake oil header as the other stuff? I read somewhere that class D amps (like my Devialet) are more sensitive to power line noise/artifacts than the traditional class A/B types and might therefore benefit from the use of a good powerline conditioner.
What is this forum's view on this? And apologies if this is in the wrong subforum.
 

Frank Dernie

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Do power conditioners fall under the same snake oil header as the other stuff? I read somewhere that class D amps (like my Devialet) are more sensitive to power line noise/artifacts than the traditional class A/B types and might therefore benefit from the use of a good powerline conditioner.
Power conditioners should fall into this category.
It a device designed to be powered by the mains needs some sort of conditioner between the mains socket and the device it is badly engineered.
Any rejection of mains borne interference should be designed into the power supply, and is with all good electronics, so, no, a mains conditioner is not needed unless the product is badly designed, and then better to buy a properly engineered device and dispose of the bad engineering than buy a conditioner IMO. If they have failed on that obvious part of the design requirement how many other engineering cock-ups are in there too?
I also have a Devialet and it isn't strictly a class D amp. it is a unique topology they call ADH or analog/digital hybrid. It needs neither fancy cables nor power conditioner. The placebo effect is strong in those who think it does (IMHO).
 

Eetu

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I would suggest looking into digital room correction as the next step (if you haven't already).

And as far as power conditioners, no. I would just use a regular surge protector (APC or similar if you are in Europe) and call it a day.

Looking at the Stereophile measurements of the Marten speakers there might be room for small improvement there indeed. Throwing a curveball here: sell the speakers and the Devialet and get something like the Genelec 8351Bs and two subwoofers :p
 

abdo123

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a powerline conditioner does not filter noise or artifacts. it makes sure that your Power supply receive regulated AC current. This is useful if you live in a 3rd world country or in an urban area where electricity is wonky.
 

Purité Audio

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Better still if you are in the Netherlands ask D&D to provide a pair of Dutch&Dutch 8cs to compare to your Martens.
Keith
 

JSmith

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powerline conditioner
… should only be required if there is a problem with your power supply, which should be dealt with by your energy provider or if internal an electrician, rather than having to purchase a product to rectify it. That said you'd be surprised how poor some supply is, especially if in a more rural area, so if it's a concern, get an electrician out to check all aspects of the supply and even install a monitor to see intermittent voltage trends etc.



JSmith
 

restorer-john

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This is useful if you live in a 3rd world country or in an urban area where electricity is wonky.

Just putting it out there- it's surely unlikely in the extreme that the OP lives in a third world country with all that gear...
 

Daverz

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I would suggest looking into digital room correction as the next step (if you haven't already).

Seconded. Digital EQ will have the biggest return on effort and investment. You've got all the software and hardware for applying filters. Get a measurement mic and start measuring with REW.
 
OP
P

pvanosta

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Thank you all for your rapid inputs. Dutch&Dutch seems like an interesting future possibility (as does the similar but different Kii ) and once our society (and our stores) reopens, I will look for an audition. I have thought about looking into Digital EQ, now the Devialet includes 'Sweet Room' options. Will take another look at that.
 

restorer-john

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The world is not what Fox News show on screen. There are rich people in developing countries.

What's Fox News?

Oh, that's right, good old Rupert's TV channel. Just that guy who renounced his Australian citizenship in the 1980s in order to become an US citizen.
 

Frank Dernie

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Thank you all for your rapid inputs. Dutch&Dutch seems like an interesting future possibility (as does the similar but different Kii ) and once our society (and our stores) reopens, I will look for an audition. I have thought about looking into Digital EQ, now the Devialet includes 'Sweet Room' options. Will take another look at that.
The thing that put me off the Kii and, particularly D&D is I find them very much less convenient to use than the Devialet, given the flexibility of input configurations and, for me, rotary volume control on the remote.
I haven't tried "sweet room" yet. Since my speakers have been positioned for SQ I have a dedicated room so no domestic restrictions to optimising systems, I haven't found room correction to offer any real gain. With the DSPeaker 2.0 I found the corrected sound bass light and couldn't be bothered to correct the curve since it was fine without. Audyssey makes a bit better job but I only use it with films on 5.1 not music with 2.0.
 

Wombat

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The world is not what Fox News show on screen. There are rich people in developing countries.

I agree that the world is not what Fox News shows.
 

FrantzM

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Just putting it out there- it's surely unlikely in the extreme that the OP lives in a third world country with all that gear...

Not one of my favorite terms: "Third World" but ... You' be surprised, in my Home country, Haiti, definitely a poor country, there are more than " a few" Genesis II , I believe there is a "One", driven by Jadis with DCs DAC and Goldmund Turntables and ... I even know a person on the island with Wilson XLS driven by equally dear Krell-based system... We can debate (and win the argument) that they could have gotten better for 1/100th less money, but ...
 

FrantzM

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Back to the main subject ...

@pvanosta , coming here may have you rethink your HiFi strategy and philosophy. The results may have you be happier with sonic bliss while spending less money and even recoup a lot of the investment made in your current gear. If you stick, learn, measure and listen. Prepare to be surprised, keep an open mind.
This said, try to acquire the following:
miniDSP Umik-1...... $100
REW ... Free download.

Learn to measure. Learning curve for REW is steep, very. The basics are not that complicated. Measure, listen, understand what you were listening to. Read the posts here. Amir , now has YouTube channel. Watch and listen. Ask questions.

Take it from there slowly... There are out there speakers, well entire systems that cost the price of your amplifier's alone that objectively surpass your current speakers out there ... If you can at all , audition the Dutch and Dutch 8c or the Kii 3 or .. the famed Neumann and Genelec .. with an open mind... It will not be easy, your audiophile friends may deride you and you will doubt, if your persist and continue, you shall be rewarded.
This is offered without condescension from a person for whom a $20,000 audio component not entire system, was "optimal" . My current system is based on a well-reviewed here, $350 active speaker and a trio of $200 subwoofers ... Before that I was yearning for a $50,000 speaker ... No more.
 

BigusDikus

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Power conditioners should fall into this category.
It a device designed to be powered by the mains needs some sort of conditioner between the mains socket and the device it is badly engineered.
Any rejection of mains borne interference should be designed into the power supply, and is with all good electronics, so, no, a mains conditioner is not needed unless the product is badly designed, and then better to buy a properly engineered device and dispose of the bad engineering than buy a conditioner IMO. If they have failed on that obvious part of the design requirement how many other engineering cock-ups are in there too?
I also have a Devialet and it isn't strictly a class D amp. it is a unique topology they call ADH or analog/digital hybrid. It needs neither fancy cables nor power conditioner. The placebo effect is strong in those who think it does (IMHO).
OK but hear me out. Here in Europe the standard is supposed to be 230V (with max 10% deviation). So the voltage is supposed to be between 207V and 253V. A few days back I've measured my power socket (beucase my electric car stopped charging and refused to resume) with my high end, calibrated voltmeter (which I use at work) and found a whopping 264V inside the power network. That's a deviation of 15%.
Now sure a lot of people around here are running programmable UPS that can "condition" the voltage to a pre-set range. But since these are bulky and expensive and far from perfect most people don't bother and that's ok for the normal stuff but not so much for audio (and to some extent video) equipment.
And no you can't really complain at the state owned power company. That's like fighting the wind mills or like that scene from South Park with the cable cancellation.

Hence I do believe now more than ever in some countries you need a better way to filter AC power than before. You can thank the green energy for that.

But most of these are snake oil I agree. And I bet they are pretty useless in the US, Japan and maybe handful of other countries.
 

Frank Dernie

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OK but hear me out. Here in Europe the standard is supposed to be 230V (with max 10% deviation). So the voltage is supposed to be between 207V and 253V. A few days back I've measured my power socket (beucase my electric car stopped charging and refused to resume) with my high end, calibrated voltmeter (which I use at work) and found a whopping 264V inside the power network. That's a deviation of 15%.
Now sure a lot of people around here are running programmable UPS that can "condition" the voltage to a pre-set range. But since these are bulky and expensive and far from perfect most people don't bother and that's ok for the normal stuff but not so much for audio (and to some extent video) equipment.
And no you can't really complain at the state owned power company. That's like fighting the wind mills or like that scene from South Park with the cable cancellation.

Hence I do believe now more than ever in some countries you need a better way to filter AC power than before. You can thank the green energy for that.

But most of these are snake oil I agree. And I bet they are pretty useless in the US, Japan and maybe handful of other countries.
But that needs a power regenerator not a power conditioner.
I have one because before the standard you mention Europe was 220V and UK 240V.
That standard was a cynical bureaucratic choice so that nothing needed changing to stay within the "standard", because 220V and 240V both are within.
I have quite a bit of kit I bought in France and the transformers hum like a bastard on UK 240 V (measured in my house here sometimes just over 250V) So I bought a power regenerator and programmed it for 220V output - it is basically a UPS without batteries - and everything European (and Chinese made for Europe) no longer hum.
So I suppose I could admit that a power re-generator can reduce mechanical buzzing in transformers if that is considered an improvement in sound quality :)
 

voodooless

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I have quite a bit of kit I bought in France and the transformers hum like a bastard on UK 240 V (measured in my house here sometimes just over 250V) So I bought a power regenerator and programmed it for 220V output - it is basically a UPS without batteries - and everything European (and Chinese made for Europe) no longer hum.
So I suppose I could admit that a power re-generator can reduce mechanical buzzing in transformers if that is considered an improvement in sound quality :)

But that is not because of the AC voltage. They ham due to DC offset. Obviously your regenerator will also get rid of that. I’m pretty sure your equipment won’t hum you set it to 240V
 
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