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Testing the CD-R generation loss when copying

ThatM1key

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Mar 27, 2020
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I was told over the years that making a copy of a CD and then burning it to a CD-R, creates a generation copy/generation loss. In this testing I'll be accurately ripping a CD and then creating copies of it using Verbatim CD-R's. The CD is "Dean Martin – The Capitol Collector's Series" from 1989. All CD's have little to no scratches. I compared the first track of these CD's. I have used the "Invert, Mix & Render, Amplify" method in Audacity.

Exact Audio Copy Settings:
Extraction Method: Secure Mode with Accurate Stream & Drive Caching Audio Data
Read Offset/Speed: AccurateRip Offset (+6) & Speed Reduction
Gap Detection: Method A & Secure
Write Offset: 0 & -6. UPC/IRSC & CD-TEXT Enabled.
Write Speed: 16x
Extract Type: WAV Image + CUE File
CDRADO: Off

Audacity Settings:
Sampling: 44.1khz 16bit
Both Conversation Sections: Best Quality & No Dither
Export: FLAC Level 8 16bit


The First Track Compare Results:
First track of each CD is compared.

The Base Line/Reference - Accurate Rip Original CD compared to itself:
Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series (Compare Itself).flac.png

AmpOGCD.jpg


Generation 1 CD-R copy of the original CD (Correct Write Offset) [Gen 1 CD compared to OG CD]:
Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series (The Correct Write Offset Gen1).flac.png

Gen1.jpg


Generation 2 CD-R Copy of Generation 1 CD-R Copy (Correct Write Offset) [Gen 2 CD compared to OG CD]:
Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series (The Correct Write Offset Gen 2).flac.png

Gen2.jpg


Generation 1 CD-R Copy of original CD (Wrong Write Offset) [Gen 1 Wrong Write Offset CD compared to original CD]:
Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series (The Wrong Write Offset Gen 1).flac.png

Wrongoffset.jpg


Spectrograms of each first track:

Baseline/Reference Original CD:
Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series [1].wav.png


Generation 1 CD-R copy of the original CD (Correct Write Offset):
Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series [1].wav.png


Generation 2 CD-R Copy of Generation 1 CD-R Copy (Correct Write Offset):
Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series [1].wav.png


Generation 1 CD-R Copy of original CD (Wrong Write Offset):
Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series [1].wav.png


The Accurate Rip Log Results:

Original CD:
Exact Audio Copy V1.6 from 23. October 2020

EAC extraction logfile from 19. January 2022, 2:25

Dean Martin / The Capitol Collector’s Series

Used drive : HL-DT-STBD-RE WH16NS40 Adapter: 1 ID: 0

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 3:03.70 | 0 | 13794
2 | 3:03.70 | 2:34.00 | 13795 | 25344
3 | 5:37.70 | 2:35.15 | 25345 | 36984
4 | 8:13.10 | 2:48.32 | 36985 | 49616
5 | 11:01.42 | 3:03.53 | 49617 | 63394
6 | 14:05.20 | 2:34.67 | 63395 | 75011
7 | 16:40.12 | 3:21.73 | 75012 | 90159
8 | 20:02.10 | 2:36.22 | 90160 | 101881
9 | 22:38.32 | 2:49.23 | 101882 | 114579
10 | 25:27.55 | 3:02.22 | 114580 | 128251
11 | 28:30.02 | 2:18.38 | 128252 | 138639
12 | 30:48.40 | 2:26.02 | 138640 | 149591
13 | 33:14.42 | 2:49.00 | 149592 | 162266
14 | 36:03.42 | 2:12.00 | 162267 | 172166
15 | 38:15.42 | 2:25.65 | 172167 | 183106
16 | 40:41.32 | 2:47.20 | 183107 | 195651
17 | 43:28.52 | 3:01.13 | 195652 | 209239
18 | 46:29.65 | 2:44.45 | 209240 | 221584
19 | 49:14.35 | 2:51.55 | 221585 | 234464
20 | 52:06.15 | 2:31.17 | 234465 | 245806


Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename C:\Users\John\Music\EAC\Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series\Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series.wav

Peak level 92.4 %
Extraction speed 7.8 X
Range quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 3934F5A4
Copy OK

No errors occurred



AccurateRip summary

Track 1 accurately ripped (confidence 72) [585AAB44] (AR v2)
Track 2 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [23050833] (AR v2)
Track 3 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [BD8BA4DC] (AR v2)
Track 4 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [F16027D7] (AR v2)
Track 5 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [8E0F38FF] (AR v2)
Track 6 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [015E7AF1] (AR v2)
Track 7 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [A1A3491F] (AR v2)
Track 8 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [9D416776] (AR v2)
Track 9 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [51F080AA] (AR v2)
Track 10 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [57BC6BD6] (AR v2)
Track 11 accurately ripped (confidence 72) [7DFDA98C] (AR v2)
Track 12 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [A654068C] (AR v2)
Track 13 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [2EAB15DA] (AR v2)
Track 14 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [CCFB3D5B] (AR v2)
Track 15 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [0778DE99] (AR v2)
Track 16 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [418DC591] (AR v2)
Track 17 accurately ripped (confidence 72) [98A5761D] (AR v2)
Track 18 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [0D74455E] (AR v2)
Track 19 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [AFC5A8DE] (AR v2)
Track 20 accurately ripped (confidence 74) [CDD60853] (AR v2)


All tracks accurately ripped

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

[CTDB TOCID: N0ytK6PG4E3dl_JZ6QKSCpGP91Q-] found
Submit result: already submitted
Track | CTDB Status
1 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
2 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
3 | (211/216) Accurately ripped
4 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
5 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
6 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
7 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
8 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
9 | (215/216) Accurately ripped

10 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
11 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
12 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
13 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
14 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
15 | (215/216) Accurately ripped
16 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
17 | (211/216) Accurately ripped
18 | (210/216) Accurately ripped
19 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
20 | (213/216) Accurately ripped

Generation 1 CD-R Copy of Original CD (Correct Write Offset):
Exact Audio Copy V1.6 from 23. October 2020

EAC extraction logfile from 19. January 2022, 3:14

Dean Martin / The Capitol Collector’s Series

Used drive : HL-DT-STBD-RE WH16NS40 Adapter: 1 ID: 0

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 3:03.70 | 0 | 13794
2 | 3:03.70 | 2:34.00 | 13795 | 25344
3 | 5:37.70 | 2:35.15 | 25345 | 36984
4 | 8:13.10 | 2:48.32 | 36985 | 49616
5 | 11:01.42 | 3:03.53 | 49617 | 63394
6 | 14:05.20 | 2:34.67 | 63395 | 75011
7 | 16:40.12 | 3:21.73 | 75012 | 90159
8 | 20:02.10 | 2:36.22 | 90160 | 101881
9 | 22:38.32 | 2:49.23 | 101882 | 114579
10 | 25:27.55 | 3:02.22 | 114580 | 128251
11 | 28:30.02 | 2:18.38 | 128252 | 138639
12 | 30:48.40 | 2:26.02 | 138640 | 149591
13 | 33:14.42 | 2:49.00 | 149592 | 162266
14 | 36:03.42 | 2:12.00 | 162267 | 172166
15 | 38:15.42 | 2:25.65 | 172167 | 183106
16 | 40:41.32 | 2:47.20 | 183107 | 195651
17 | 43:28.52 | 3:01.13 | 195652 | 209239
18 | 46:29.65 | 2:44.45 | 209240 | 221584
19 | 49:14.35 | 2:51.55 | 221585 | 234464
20 | 52:06.15 | 2:31.17 | 234465 | 245806


Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename C:\Users\John\Music\EAC\Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series Gen 1 16x\Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series.wav

Peak level 92.4 %
Extraction speed 8.1 X
Range quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 3934F5A4
Copy OK

No errors occurred



AccurateRip summary

Track 1 accurately ripped (confidence 72) [585AAB44] (AR v2)
Track 2 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [23050833] (AR v2)
Track 3 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [BD8BA4DC] (AR v2)
Track 4 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [F16027D7] (AR v2)
Track 5 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [8E0F38FF] (AR v2)
Track 6 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [015E7AF1] (AR v2)
Track 7 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [A1A3491F] (AR v2)
Track 8 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [9D416776] (AR v2)
Track 9 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [51F080AA] (AR v2)
Track 10 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [57BC6BD6] (AR v2)
Track 11 accurately ripped (confidence 72) [7DFDA98C] (AR v2)
Track 12 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [A654068C] (AR v2)
Track 13 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [2EAB15DA] (AR v2)
Track 14 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [CCFB3D5B] (AR v2)
Track 15 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [0778DE99] (AR v2)
Track 16 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [418DC591] (AR v2)
Track 17 accurately ripped (confidence 72) [98A5761D] (AR v2)
Track 18 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [0D74455E] (AR v2)
Track 19 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [AFC5A8DE] (AR v2)
Track 20 accurately ripped (confidence 74) [CDD60853] (AR v2)


All tracks accurately ripped

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

[CTDB TOCID: N0ytK6PG4E3dl_JZ6QKSCpGP91Q-] found
Submit result: already submitted
Track | CTDB Status
1 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
2 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
3 | (211/216) Accurately ripped
4 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
5 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
6 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
7 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
8 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
9 | (215/216) Accurately ripped

10 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
11 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
12 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
13 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
14 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
15 | (215/216) Accurately ripped
16 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
17 | (211/216) Accurately ripped
18 | (210/216) Accurately ripped
19 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
20 | (213/216) Accurately ripped

Generation 2 CD-R Copy of Generation 1 CD-R Copy (Correct Write Offset):
Exact Audio Copy V1.6 from 23. October 2020

EAC extraction logfile from 19. January 2022, 3:39

Dean Martin / The Capitol Collector’s Series

Used drive : HL-DT-STBD-RE WH16NS40 Adapter: 1 ID: 0

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 3:03.70 | 0 | 13794
2 | 3:03.70 | 2:34.00 | 13795 | 25344
3 | 5:37.70 | 2:35.15 | 25345 | 36984
4 | 8:13.10 | 2:48.32 | 36985 | 49616
5 | 11:01.42 | 3:03.53 | 49617 | 63394
6 | 14:05.20 | 2:34.67 | 63395 | 75011
7 | 16:40.12 | 3:21.73 | 75012 | 90159
8 | 20:02.10 | 2:36.22 | 90160 | 101881
9 | 22:38.32 | 2:49.23 | 101882 | 114579
10 | 25:27.55 | 3:02.22 | 114580 | 128251
11 | 28:30.02 | 2:18.38 | 128252 | 138639
12 | 30:48.40 | 2:26.02 | 138640 | 149591
13 | 33:14.42 | 2:49.00 | 149592 | 162266
14 | 36:03.42 | 2:12.00 | 162267 | 172166
15 | 38:15.42 | 2:25.65 | 172167 | 183106
16 | 40:41.32 | 2:47.20 | 183107 | 195651
17 | 43:28.52 | 3:01.13 | 195652 | 209239
18 | 46:29.65 | 2:44.45 | 209240 | 221584
19 | 49:14.35 | 2:51.55 | 221585 | 234464
20 | 52:06.15 | 2:31.17 | 234465 | 245806


Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename C:\Users\John\Music\EAC\Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series Gen 2 16x\Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series.wav

Peak level 92.4 %
Extraction speed 8.1 X
Range quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 3934F5A4
Copy OK

No errors occurred



AccurateRip summary

Track 1 accurately ripped (confidence 72) [585AAB44] (AR v2)
Track 2 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [23050833] (AR v2)
Track 3 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [BD8BA4DC] (AR v2)
Track 4 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [F16027D7] (AR v2)
Track 5 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [8E0F38FF] (AR v2)
Track 6 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [015E7AF1] (AR v2)
Track 7 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [A1A3491F] (AR v2)
Track 8 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [9D416776] (AR v2)
Track 9 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [51F080AA] (AR v2)
Track 10 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [57BC6BD6] (AR v2)
Track 11 accurately ripped (confidence 72) [7DFDA98C] (AR v2)
Track 12 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [A654068C] (AR v2)
Track 13 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [2EAB15DA] (AR v2)
Track 14 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [CCFB3D5B] (AR v2)
Track 15 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [0778DE99] (AR v2)
Track 16 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [418DC591] (AR v2)
Track 17 accurately ripped (confidence 72) [98A5761D] (AR v2)
Track 18 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [0D74455E] (AR v2)
Track 19 accurately ripped (confidence 71) [AFC5A8DE] (AR v2)
Track 20 accurately ripped (confidence 74) [CDD60853] (AR v2)


All tracks accurately ripped

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

[CTDB TOCID: N0ytK6PG4E3dl_JZ6QKSCpGP91Q-] found
Submit result: already submitted
Track | CTDB Status
1 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
2 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
3 | (211/216) Accurately ripped
4 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
5 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
6 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
7 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
8 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
9 | (215/216) Accurately ripped

10 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
11 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
12 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
13 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
14 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
15 | (215/216) Accurately ripped
16 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
17 | (211/216) Accurately ripped
18 | (210/216) Accurately ripped
19 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
20 | (213/216) Accurately ripped

Generation 1 Copy Of Original CD (Wrong Write Offset):
Exact Audio Copy V1.6 from 23. October 2020

EAC extraction logfile from 19. January 2022, 3:57

Dean Martin / The Capitol Collector’s Series

Used drive : HL-DT-STBD-RE WH16NS40 Adapter: 1 ID: 0

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 3:03.70 | 0 | 13794
2 | 3:03.70 | 2:34.00 | 13795 | 25344
3 | 5:37.70 | 2:35.15 | 25345 | 36984
4 | 8:13.10 | 2:48.32 | 36985 | 49616
5 | 11:01.42 | 3:03.53 | 49617 | 63394
6 | 14:05.20 | 2:34.67 | 63395 | 75011
7 | 16:40.12 | 3:21.73 | 75012 | 90159
8 | 20:02.10 | 2:36.22 | 90160 | 101881
9 | 22:38.32 | 2:49.23 | 101882 | 114579
10 | 25:27.55 | 3:02.22 | 114580 | 128251
11 | 28:30.02 | 2:18.38 | 128252 | 138639
12 | 30:48.40 | 2:26.02 | 138640 | 149591
13 | 33:14.42 | 2:49.00 | 149592 | 162266
14 | 36:03.42 | 2:12.00 | 162267 | 172166
15 | 38:15.42 | 2:25.65 | 172167 | 183106
16 | 40:41.32 | 2:47.20 | 183107 | 195651
17 | 43:28.52 | 3:01.13 | 195652 | 209239
18 | 46:29.65 | 2:44.45 | 209240 | 221584
19 | 49:14.35 | 2:51.55 | 221585 | 234464
20 | 52:06.15 | 2:31.17 | 234465 | 245806


Range status and errors

Selected range

Filename C:\Users\John\Music\EAC\Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series Gen 1 16x Wrong Write Offset\Dean Martin - The Capitol Collector’s Series.wav

Peak level 92.4 %
Extraction speed 8.1 X
Range quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 79734A97
Copy OK

No errors occurred



AccurateRip summary

Track 1 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 72) [8B9A8D6E], AccurateRip returned [585AAB44] (AR v2)
Track 2 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [D1CEBB95], AccurateRip returned [23050833] (AR v2)
Track 3 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [59623A19], AccurateRip returned [BD8BA4DC] (AR v2)
Track 4 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [AB24DAEC], AccurateRip returned [F16027D7] (AR v2)
Track 5 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [FC4FA3D7], AccurateRip returned [8E0F38FF] (AR v2)
Track 6 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [6008DAB1], AccurateRip returned [015E7AF1] (AR v2)
Track 7 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [EE7A9802], AccurateRip returned [A1A3491F] (AR v2)
Track 8 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [09C2D2ED], AccurateRip returned [9D416776] (AR v2)
Track 9 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [F8B32774], AccurateRip returned [51F080AA] (AR v2)
Track 10 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [736D887A], AccurateRip returned [57BC6BD6] (AR v2)
Track 11 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 72) [DDD409B5], AccurateRip returned [7DFDA98C] (AR v2)
Track 12 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [0E766B6F], AccurateRip returned [A654068C] (AR v2)
Track 13 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [8FFE79E5], AccurateRip returned [2EAB15DA] (AR v2)
Track 14 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [C56C3722], AccurateRip returned [CCFB3D5B] (AR v2)
Track 15 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [8F786AF6], AccurateRip returned [0778DE99] (AR v2)
Track 16 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [C56D4671], AccurateRip returned [418DC591] (AR v2)
Track 17 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 72) [4BF827D9], AccurateRip returned [98A5761D] (AR v2)
Track 18 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [D0EC6D99], AccurateRip returned [0D74455E] (AR v2)
Track 19 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 71) [AB5144EF], AccurateRip returned [AFC5A8DE] (AR v2)
Track 20 cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 74) [281CB600], AccurateRip returned [CDD60853] (AR v2)


No tracks could be verified as accurate
You may have a different pressing from the one(s) in the database

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

[CTDB TOCID: N0ytK6PG4E3dl_JZ6QKSCpGP91Q-] found
Submit result: already submitted
Track | CTDB Status
1 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
2 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
3 | (211/216) Accurately ripped
4 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
5 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
6 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
7 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
8 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
9 | (215/216) Accurately ripped

10 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
11 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
12 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
13 | (213/216) Accurately ripped
14 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
15 | (215/216) Accurately ripped
16 | (212/216) Accurately ripped
17 | (211/216) Accurately ripped
18 | (210/216) Accurately ripped
19 | (214/216) Accurately ripped
20 | (213/216) Accurately ripped

MD5 Checksum:

First track:

OG CD: cb39a00ab3c011584fdb7171dd2bd0d6

1st Gen CD-R Copy of OG CD (Correct Offset): cb39a00ab3c011584fdb7171dd2bd0d6

2nd Gen CD-R Copy of 1st Gen (Correct Offset): cb39a00ab3c011584fdb7171dd2bd0d6

1st Gen CD-R Copy of OG CD (Wrong Offset): f3cad211872a715c6f15eef77f5f3a6a

WAV CD Image:
OG CD: 72b2013fc5ff7116b9a6837b15516aa2

1st Gen CD-R Copy of OG CD (Correct Offset):72b2013fc5ff7116b9a6837b15516aa2

2nd Gen CD-R Copy of 1st Gen (Correct Offset): 72b2013fc5ff7116b9a6837b15516aa2

1st Gen CD-R Copy of OG CD (Wrong Offset): 8b0f9dd10fd5132a4cbab10a87a12447


Conclusion:
With the correct read & write offset, you can get a bit perfect copy. Use proper software that has accuraterip and offers full control, don't rip & burn using garbage old software like WMP & iTunes.
 
Last edited:

restorer-john

Master Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
8,974
Likes
25,289
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Wasting your time. There is no loss period. Quick way to check is to do a checksum for each track. You'll find the copies are bit perfect.

Sure, when discs are perfect and data loss is minimal there is little point in the exercise.

However, when discs are damaged, marginal, out of spec or have significant linear burst errors, things change rapidly. Throw a calibrated test disc in there with deliberate errors, interuptions and track pitch changes and what is EAC going to do? It throws in the towel really fast, as does any ripping program.

Poor old EAC doesn't stand a chance against a proper CD player. It gives up and runs out of error correction blocks, whereas a decent CD player sails through, all the while outputting a perfect bit stream via SPDIF.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
14,729
Likes
23,938
Sure, when discs are perfect and data loss is minimal there is little point in the exercise.

However, when discs are damaged, marginal, out of spec or have significant linear burst errors, things change rapidly. Throw a calibrated test disc in there with deliberate errors, interuptions and track pitch changes and what is EAC going to do? It throws in the towel really fast, as does any ripping program.

Poor old EAC doesn't stand a chance against a proper CD player. It gives up and runs out of error correction blocks, whereas a decent CD player sails through, all the while outputting a perfect bit stream via SPDIF.
Exactly opposite my experience with EAC. However nothing in the op mentioned damaged disc's just copy loss. And EAC or any other copy program with undamaged disc's copies them fine. Checksums will tell your that in a matter of moments.

Also some software will give the wrong offset and yet each individual track is fine. Meaning it will play back correctly.
 

Offler

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
324
Likes
264
CD audio IS PCM WAV file with 44KHz 16bit and usually stereo track.

So if its ripped using PC (assuming windows), without compression, there should not be any difference at all.

If you want to put them back again as an audioCD, there you can get some differences, depending on small details related to filesystem, but it should not affect the data themselves. The offset difference can be one of such.

But even when MD5 sum does differ, the data should be untouched. Playback might be affected in things like gaps etc.

Making ISO of any optical media and using it for a copy is the best way in my opinion. Original and copy should be identical, bit by bit.
 

Blumlein 88

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Sure, when discs are perfect and data loss is minimal there is little point in the exercise.

However, when discs are damaged, marginal, out of spec or have significant linear burst errors, things change rapidly. Throw a calibrated test disc in there with deliberate errors, interuptions and track pitch changes and what is EAC going to do? It throws in the towel really fast, as does any ripping program.

Poor old EAC doesn't stand a chance against a proper CD player. It gives up and runs out of error correction blocks, whereas a decent CD player sails through, all the while outputting a perfect bit stream via SPDIF.
I've never found a CD player able to play a disc that EAC couldn't handle. Unless EAC has changed it doesn't throw in the towel so easily. I've actually not used it in maybe 7 years. I use some Linux rippers one of which employs most of the same extraction algorithms that EAC used. My typical case when more people still used CD's is someone brings a scratched one that won't play or have used it in their car and it is covered in scratches and no CD player will play it. EAC or CD Paranoia would gnaw away at the worst of them sometimes for several hours, but would retrieve the tracks. Sometimes a track or two had interpolation, but would play and sound fine. The only failures were where some chemical had damaged the aluminum substrate.

I've run across 3 CD's that have no apparent damage that most players will not play. EAC made copies which play on everything. So the idea EAC stands no chance against a proper CD player just seems bonkers to me.

I have the Pierre Verany test CD, but haven't ever tried it on EAC. Didn't see the point of doing so.
 
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Dialectic

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I've never found a CD player able to play a disc that EAC couldn't handle. Unless EAC has changed it doesn't throw in the towel so easily. I've actually not used it in maybe 7 years. I use some Linux rippers one of which employs most of the same extraction algorithms that EAC used. My typical case when more people still used CD's is someone brings a scratched one that won't play or have used it in their car and it is covered in scratches and no CD player will play it. EAC or CD Paranoia would gnaw away at the worst of them sometimes for several hours, but would retrieve the tracks. Sometimes a track or two had interpolation, but would play and sound fine. The only failures were where some chemical had damaged the aluminum substrate.

I've run across 3 CD's that have no apparent damage that most players will not play. EAC made copies which play on everything. So the idea EAC stands no chance against a proper CD player just seems bonkers to me.

I have the Pierre Verany test CD, but haven't ever tried it on EAC. Didn't see the point of doing so.
My experience with EAC is the same. In fact, I maintain an ancient Windows desktop box for the sole purpose of running EAC and maintaining/updating my music library. I use the desktop's internal SATA DVD-RW drive, which rips 99.9% of discs with no problem.

If that drive cannot rip a damaged disc, which is an exceedingly rare occurrence, it goes in an external Plextor IDE drive that I've kept around for ripping damaged discs.

I've bought some badly damaged used discs in the past, and so far, I've never come across one that would not rip under EAC with those two old drives.
 

krabapple

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Sure, when discs are perfect and data loss is minimal there is little point in the exercise.

However, when discs are damaged, marginal, out of spec or have significant linear burst errors, things change rapidly. Throw a calibrated test disc in there with deliberate errors, interuptions and track pitch changes and what is EAC going to do? It throws in the towel really fast, as does any ripping program.

Poor old EAC doesn't stand a chance against a proper CD player. It gives up and runs out of error correction blocks, whereas a decent CD player sails through, all the while outputting a perfect bit stream via SPDIF.

EAC is expressly designed to let users do everything possible to get a perfect rip -- or at least a playable one. Some of that requires changing default options, and choice of CD drive. Under those stringent conditions it never 'threw in the towel' easily in my experience. Some (rare) rips went on for hours before succeeding.
 

Blumlein 88

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EAC is expressly designed to let users do everything possible to get a perfect rip -- or at least a playable one. Some of that requires changing default options, and choice of CD drive. Under those stringent conditions it never 'threw in the towel' easily in my experience. Some (rare) rips went on for hours before succeeding.
Yes. I had one that took eleven hours.
 

AnalogSteph

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These days, I'd rather be limiting the number of retries and attempt to repair the rip with CueTools instead. I've had to do this once or twice, worked like a charm. The only requirement is that the disc has to have been submitted to CTDB, which in my experience is even more commonly the case than for the AccurateRip database, so unless you've got something super-duper exotic you should be fine.

Drive quality, age and wear do play a role alongside potential firmware quirks, but you can basically rip to a satisfactory degree on a large number of drives. I would prefer a desktop drive as those are generally quicker and more robust, but have come across some solid slimline choices as well. You are likely to see drive new price reflected in longevity and series variation, I've seen a number of different old-age failure modes now (belt, microswitches, bearings, weak reading (laser / photodiode / dust?)).

Interestingly, I checked prices recently and found that optical drives cost at least as much as they did in 2013-14. I mean, quality had hit rock bottom even then (much like buying a floppy drive in the late '90s), and with PC cases foolishly dropping 5-1/4" drive bays left and right, production volumes can't be as high as they used to.
 
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ThatM1key

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These days, I'd rather be limiting the number of retries and attempt to repair the rip with CueTools instead. I've had to do this once or twice, worked like a charm. The only requirement is that the disc has to have been submitted to CTDB, which in my experience is even more commonly the case than for the AccurateRip database, so unless you've got something super-duper exotic you should be fine.

Drive quality, age and wear do play a role alongside potential firmware quirks, but you can basically rip to a satisfactory degree on a large number of drives. I would prefer a desktop drive as those are generally quicker and more robust, but have come across some solid slimline choices as well. You are likely to see drive new price reflected in longevity and series variation, I've seen a number of different old-age failure modes now (belt, microswitches, bearings, weak reading (laser / photodiode / dust?)).

Interestingly, I checked prices recently and found that optical drives cost at least as much as they did in 2013-14. I mean, quality had hit rock bottom even then (much like buying a floppy drive in the late '90s), and with PC cases foolishly dropping 5-1/4" drive bays left and right, production volumes can't be as high as they used to.
I think non blu-ray optical drives are at there price peak. I don't think they'll go any cheaper. It's better just to buy a optical drive lot off of eBay like I did before. I mean most of them have been just siting. Best deal I got was 7 optical drives for $10 total.

In terms of blu-ray drives the used market in general is wack. There is so many blu ray drives that cost very much or even more than new drives, I don't understand it. I would pay over new if the drive was guaranteed to rip 4k movies.
 
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