Tell Us If You Use 3.1, 5.1, 7.1 9.1 system?

[popej]

7.1.4 cannot be 7.4.4. Remember, we are not talking about how many speakers are in the system. We are talking about how many channels there are. There is only one LFE channel no matter how many subwoofers are reproducing it.

Actually subwoofers do not play LFE only, they can play low frequency part of other channels. See explanation from Denon x3800 manual:

The same goes for room correction, each subwoofer can get different signal. System like Dirac Art or DLBC can use multiple channels even for single LFE signal. IMO notation .1 or .4 describes the number of subwoofer channels with independent processing.

 

[DoctorRobert]

HT-room: 5.1.2 (Denon AVR-X2600)
Home office: 2.1 (SMSL A100, REW correction)
Living room: 2.0 (SONOS Amp)

What you see here is that I tend to use all the channels available (in the amp) with the exception of the SONOS in the living room, where I prefer the uncluttered combination of an unobtrusive amp with 2 nice looking speakers (DALI Fazon F5). Tastes differ and all that.

 

[goat76]

I have a 5.2 system which I’m quite pleased with, but I would have liked it to be a 7.2 system but that’s not possible with the current room layout.

It’s unlikely that I will ever go for any height speakers as I’ve heard there is usually not that much happening in those channels anyway, and there’s also a lot of hassle installing anything in the ceiling.

Both movies and music in Dolby Atmos sounds pretty amazing to me, even if it’s just a 5.2 system.

 

[Oddball]

Actually subwoofers do not play LFE only, they can play low frequency part of other channels. See explanation from Denon x3800 manual:

View attachment 434430
The same goes for room correction, each subwoofer can get different signal. System like Dirac Art or DLBC can use multiple channels even for single LFE signal. IMO notation .1 or .4 describes the number of subwoofer channels with independent processing.

Subwoofers will always play bass content from other channels below set crossover - but that will be mixed with LFE and ultimately will become mono, sans the +10dB bump that only LFE signal will get. That would be the standard bass management that was around for a long while.

LFE+Main was also around for a while and there might be overlap between the mains and subs to the extent that the low pass filter on the subs is set higher than the point where mains roll of.

There are many new-er bass management/routing options and directional bass is one of them. All the subs will continue to play LFE, but in addition you can designate that below crossover bass signal from the mains is only directed to the closest sub. That is apparently to provide more directional clues. As I understand not really loved or implemented by many as Audyssey will be EQ-ing subs separately, not as a group. Depending on the room and sub placement that might not be optimal either for LFE or for bass from individual channels as their response will be optimised only for a specific sub, not as a group. This could to some extent be fixed by manual EQ for the subs in Audyssey MultiEQ-X.

Storm advanced bass management also has directional options, but they don't work for Dirac, only manual or REW PEQ. Trinnov has even more advanced bass routing options and as I understand would EQ subs individually and as a group.

Then there is the LFE distribution for D&M (2023/4 models) that will send LFE to the speakers that are designated as full range with the SPL adjustable from -20dB to 0dB. This will give you more "subs". One needs to be careful that each of the "full range" speakers is EQd appropriately so that signal sent to the speaker (including LFE) is rolled off according to the speaker capabilities. Very few speakers will be truly full range, but then again this feature gives you ability to distribute LFE to "smaller" subs with e.g. F3 of 25-50hz. Full range LFE will not get +10dB boost like the subs.

EDIT: Both Storm and Trinnov have similar LFE distribution capabilities, and Trinnov even more granular. Again, Storm with Dirac will not support those.

Then there is Dirac ART which could use all speakers to support other speakers in their respective ranges to provide cancelation for the 20-150hz range and reduce decay times. I had some limited experience with ART but not nearly enough to understand what it really does. ART is still in development so once done will make sure to spend more time understanding what it does.

 

[ban25]

Then there is Dirac ART which could use all speakers to support other speakers in their respective ranges to provide cancelation for the 20-150hz range and reduce decay times. I had some limited experience with ART but not nearly enough to understand what it really does. ART is still in development so once done will make sure to spend more time understanding what it does.

I need to double check, but I think with ART, there's a limitation that only one sub gets the LFE channel, regardless of how many are in the system.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

2.2 (Audiolab 9000 stereo amp, 2 Lintons 85 in front and 2 SVS 2000 subs behind the sofa). The whole layout is independently set through MiniDSP flex digital (DSP and delays for each speaker and sub) and each sub is assigned to each channel (left sub and right sub).

No dolby, no Atmos. Just stereo for 90% music, 10% movies. I’m not a Sci-Fi guy.

Soundstage increased a lot when I set both subs at the back. Some immerssion is added to the scene but directionality is not affected because main speakers are just in the front.

 

[Oddball]

I need to double check, but I think with ART, there's a limitation that only one sub gets the LFE channel, regardless of how many are in the system.

I don’t recall as it was some time ago, but think you could have more than one but group them as LFE subs - but yeah then you need to designate others to be supporting/cancelation sub.

I asked the dealer if we could circumvent that by having all subs in both groups and using eg 8 channels for 4 subs but never got a clear answer. So each sub would have LR input - one LFE and other cancelation.

 

[Chrispy]

It's four full range drivers. Note the two headphone jacks coming out. It can connect 4 separate signals, one for each driver. In the old days you would connect it to your special quad equipment. In the modern day you'd connect it to the green and black jacks on your motherboard, maybe a couple headphone amps in between, and set Windows to 4-channel output. I tried one of the cheap gaming sets once and was not impressed, but this kind of stuff does exist.

I didn't look at details of the cables. So it can actually handle different signals if you have some strange setup. Okay. Do you actually get any particular benefit from a typical surround signal or is it more suited to old quad style?

 

[10PSPMemSticksForMiku2007]

You can use it with a computer. Quad is a supported layout on Windows. Movie players and surround sound games mostly should just work. Alternatively you can cause EqualizerAPO to to set up your own downmix from a surround sound format.

 

[Chrispy]

You can use it with a computer. Quad is a supported layout on Windows. Movie players and surround sound games mostly should just work. Alternatively you can cause EqualizerAPO to to set up your own downmix from a surround sound format.

If your computer has multiple analog outputs for multich maybe. Mine doesn't nor would I bother, I have digital multich output and good mutich gear to go with it.

 

[Soundmixer]

Actually subwoofers do not play LFE only, they can play low frequency part of other channels. See explanation from Denon x3800 manual:

View attachment 434430
The same goes for room correction, each subwoofer can get different signal. System like Dirac Art or DLBC can use multiple channels even for single LFE signal. IMO notation .1 or .4 describes the number of subwoofer channels with independent processing.

I am well aware of bass management. However, there is still only one LFE channel even if you use bass management. This diagram tells how bass can be sent to different subwoofers during reproduction, not during the mixing and mastering stage.

 

[popej]

However, there is still only one LFE channel even if you use bass management. This diagram tells how bass can be sent to different subwoofers during reproduction, not during the mixing and mastering stage.

Isn't it a topic about reproduction?

 

[goat76]

Isn't it a topic about reproduction?

I think he means that if the mixes don't contain more than one LFE channel to begin with, what difference does it make to have separate LFE channels in the reproduction chain?

Does Dolby Atmos mixing suite have more than one LE channel?

 

[popej]

I think he means that if the mixes don't contain more than one LFE channel to begin with, what difference does it make to have separate LFE channels in the reproduction chain?

For me it looks perfectly reasonable to use multiple subwoofers with Audyssey MSO or Dirac Live Bass Controll to reproduce single LFE channel.

Does Dolby Atmos mixing suite have more than one LE channel?

Does any AVR process multiple LFE channels? If someone describe their system as 7.2, then most probably it is not about the number of LFE channels

 

[masterhw]

I think it’s just splitting hairs on the nomenclature, X.Y.Z suggests X and Z are all unique channels (almost certainly being reproduced by only one speaker), whereas Y is generally understood to be (primarily) sharing the same channel content. I think it’s fine as a convention and is pretty widely understood as is.
If a mixer is confused when I say I have 7.3.4 that I might be consuming content with three distinct LFE channels, they’re being intentionally ignorant. Multi-sub is not new and this is almost always how it is conveyed, at least in reproduction oriented communities.

 

[Oddball]

If budget allows, it is indeed important in reproduction to have multiple subwoofers- except in potentially small rooms coupled with flexibility in placement. More subs will generally provide smoother response and headroom.

For AVRs and AVPs it is also important to know number of subs it can process independently and also if that is eating into eg 16 channel limits, or is eg 15+4.

Quite a bit going on around only one LFE and bass managed content from other channels.

 

[goat76]

For me it looks perfectly reasonable to use multiple subwoofers with Audyssey MSO or Dirac Live Bass Controll to reproduce single LFE channel.


Does any AVR process multiple LFE channels? If someone describe their system as 7.2, then most probably it is not about the number of LFE channels

It seems like I was wrong in assuming there was the possibility of mixing Dolby Atmos into more than one LFE channel.

The reason I thought there was more than one LFE channel is that my Marantz Cinema 50 has 4 subwoofer outputs, and the option to set them up in "directional Mode" FL/FR/RL/RR. I assumed that meant it was possible to mix Dolby Atmos content with more than one effect channel, but I now realize it's probably all about keeping the directional cues of the bass closer to the area of the smaller speakers (the ones that are not set up as full-range speakers).

 

[Soundmixer]

I think it’s just splitting hairs on the nomenclature, X.Y.Z suggests X and Z are all unique channels (almost certainly being reproduced by only one speaker), whereas Y is generally understood to be (primarily) sharing the same channel content. I think it’s fine as a convention and is pretty widely understood as is.
If a mixer is confused when I say I have 7.3.4 that I might be consuming content with three distinct LFE channels, they’re being intentionally ignorant. Multi-sub is not new and this is almost always how it is conveyed, at least in reproduction oriented communities.

Or you could be intentionally ignorant for using 7.3.4 when neither Dolby nor DTS lists their format as such. As a mixer, I don't care how many subs you use in your system, and apparently neither does Dolby or DTS. You can make up whatever you want, there is no police out to arrest you for being wrong.

 

[Soundmixer]

For me it looks perfectly reasonable to use multiple subwoofers with Audyssey MSO or Dirac Live Bass Controll to reproduce single LFE channel.


Does any AVR process multiple LFE channels? If someone describe their system as 7.2, then most probably it is not about the number of LFE channels

Nobody is saying you cannot use multiple subs to produce a single LFE. It does not matter how many subs you use for that channel, it is still just one channel.

If somebody describes their system as 7.2, they would be incorrect from a technical perspective. Dolby nor DTS has a 7.2 format - nobody does.

 

[antcollinet]

Or you could be intentionally ignorant for using 7.3.4 when neither Dolby nor DTS lists their format as such. As a mixer, I don't care how many subs you use in your system, and apparently neither does Dolby or DTS. You can make up whatever you want, there is no police out to arrest you for being wrong.

Why do you feel the only appropriate use of x.x.x is for describing the channels of a mix.

It is routinely used (eg by AVR manufacturers & Resellers) to also describe the number of amp/speaker channel they have on their devices. That is also how most people here are using it.

And yes - even Dolby is using it in that way.