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Tekton M-Lore Speaker Measurement Update

Indeed. I guess they have never heard of a wave guide….lol. Amazing thing those wave guides. A piece of plastic or metal, properly designed takes care of everything claimed for the radial tweeter array.

Plus, it’s like they like on another timeline and there the only tweeter technology is 1” domes. No compression drivers. No horns. No ribbons, no AMT, and certainly no electrostatic panels. No KEF-like coaxial designs either.

It is just laughable.

You know you are in trouble when Polk is creating more legit driver innovation at a price point many times lower. or KEF. or JBL with their past studio series with compression drivers set into huge wave guides.

a ribbon or largish sized AMT seems a far better choice if one is pursuing “Exotic” tweeters and crossover points.

Have a hang up on phase alignment/time alignment? Go with a proper line array.

I say this as someone who loves many electrostatic speakers even though i am aware of all their inherent issues. They can produce an amazing effect. I also like the old mirage Omnidirectional tech, also an amazing sound field. Again with drawbacks. Not everything has to measure fantastically on a Klippel to be enjoyable. And Di poles, bi poles and panels seem to measure quite poorly on it, which may be no surprise given the design tech requires an echoic room .

But who decides these things are a better use of money than a KEF reference? Or a Revel? Or for that matter Martin Logan electrostatics? Or a truly esoteric modern equivalent of an Apogee ribbon? Or ESS.

I just do not get it….
"But who decides these things are a better use of money?"
You decide with your ears and YOUR money.
 
"Amazing thing those wave guides"

Some of us feel they sound like S***
For all the objective and subjective improvements that waveguides provide, the time smearing reflections are to great! Although difficult to quantify.

I stay with direct radiators TW,TMW,TMWW and TM(Midbass)WW on Flat baffles, rounded corners, tweeter spheres and felt sometimes ete, etc..

Tekton Patented multi-tweeter is good for marketing "different". There's a video somewhere of Mr Bose teaching a class of students about how different is the road to success.
He writes on the chalk board the word small with a line towards the word success.. SMALL----------->SUCCESS something like that
Clearly it worked out
 
I had speakers in the 70's with a slatted diffraction lens. I thought it was cool looking and the designer was well known in a small geographical area so figured the Lens must be a positive improvement.. Adding diffraction is a bad idea!
 
I had speakers in the 70's with a slatted diffraction lens. I thought it was cool looking and the designer was well known in a small geographical area so figured the Lens must be a positive improvement.. Adding diffraction is a bad idea!
I had some speakers in the1980s with the slatted lenses. 'Studiopower MC2000'.

I thought they were just another way to improve the HF dispersion?
 
Waveguides are nothing new anyway
They are basically the first thing invented for audio playback:
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Back in the day, when there was no amplifier, or later, when just a few Watts were available, horns were the only way to generate enough volume to reach the masses.
For all the objective and subjective improvements that waveguides provide, the time smearing reflections are to great! Although difficult to quantify.
While all horns are waveguides, not all waveguides are horns. What you are describing is the effect a specific subset of horns produces, like these (but not exclusively):
I had speakers in the 70's with a slatted diffraction lens.
Those things were created for efficiency and size, not for fidelity. And obviously, there will be consequences.

Modern shallow waveguides do not have these issues, and neither will modern horns generated and simulated using sophisticated software.

See:

 
"While all horns are waveguides, not all waveguides are horns." I'm aware.

" What you are describing is the effect a specific subset of horns produces, like these (but not exclusively):"

ALl horns and waveguides that I have heard - Audible "time smearing reflections are to great! Although difficult to quantify."
I've tried to measure it with no success.
 
ALl horns and waveguides that I have heard - Audible "time smearing reflections are to great! Although difficult to quantify."
I've tried to measure it with no success.
Then most likely it's something else you heard, or it's just an imprinted bias. It is very unlikely that you hear any negative effect from a shallow waveguide as found in for instance desktop speaker from Genelec of Neuman. Maybe you just don't like the directivity control it provides.

... and please use the quote features the forum provides. It is so much more convenient :)
 
Then most likely it's something else you heard, or it's just an imprinted bias. It is very unlikely that you hear any negative effect from a shallow waveguide as found in for instance desktop speaker from Genelec of Neuman. Maybe you just don't like the directivity control it provides.

... and please use the quote features the forum provides. It is so much more convenient :)
Then most likely it's something else you heard, or it's just an imprinted bias
It's possible that I've only experienced poorly designed horns and waveguides.
It is very unlikely that you hear any negative effect from a shallow waveguide as found in for instance desktop speaker from Genelec of Neuman.
No, I haven't heard these so maybe well designed shallow waveguides are better. This implies other waveguides have problems. No issues with direct radiators other than the room but easy to get around with positioning and nearfield listening. Still even better with acoustic treatment.
Maybe you just don't like the directivity control it provides.
I don't see any reason that I shouldn't like directivity control when in the on axis listening position

Thanks, Still working on multi quote feature
 
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No issues with direct radiators
Well, to be a bit pedantic: a flat baffle is also a waveguide, just a very flat one. It provides up to 180 degrees of directivity (until the baffle step). Things like sharp corners also negatively affect the response and sound, similar to diffraction slots (though their effect may be much more significant).
I don't see any reason that I shouldn't like that when in the on axis listening position
Well #2, plenty of people prefer wider directivity to narrower, even though the on-asis response is the same. There is nothing wrong with that. And even on narrow directivity systems, there are variants of how to distribute this directivity: constant directivity will try to keep the directivity constant over frequency, vs horns/waveguides that narrow directivity with an increase of frequency. There are even horns that use both types at ones in H and V directions.

Thanks, Still working on multi quote feature
You'll get the hang of it :)
 
I had no idea wave guides could arouse such passion!

Should have known better. This is ASR after all.

There is only one way forward: for Amir to do extensive comparative measurements with different tweeters implementations to determine the pros and cons of each. We can organize a chart where members select a tweeter driver to buy and send Amir. I’ll pony up for a vintage ESS ribbon tweeter….

It should take only 8-10 months.

I’m kidding.

I do feel badly, like I may have 12v triggered people.
 
Well, to be a bit pedantic: a flat baffle is also a waveguide, just a very flat one
I am a university professor, and boy is this a familiar phrasing heard in class and when professors are selecting sandwiches for faculty meetings, eg; “well, paninis with cheese are technically grilled cheese, just ones requiring specific tooling.”

Or my favorite example: “all khakis are chinos. But not all chinos are khaki.”
 
I am a university professor, and boy is this a familiar phrasing heard in class and when professors are selecting sandwiches for faculty meetings, eg; “well, paninis with cheese are technically grilled cheese, just ones requiring specific tooling.”

Or my favorite example: “all khakis are chinos. But not all chinos are khaki.”
In Boston, Massachusetts, kahkis are what you need to have to start your Subaru.
They love their Subarus in the Bay State.

They are basically the first thing invented for audio playback:
... and for the ab initio amplification of sound, they predate history.

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EDIT: Talk about prior art! :)
 
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For all the objective and subjective improvements that waveguides provide, the time smearing reflections are to great! Although difficult to quantify.

If your waveguide has internal reflections causing issues then it wasn't designed properly. I hear nothing "smearing" about good waveguides, but plenty of it on flat faceplate tweeters on flat baffles.
There is only one way forward: for Amir to do extensive comparative measurements with different tweeters implementations to determine the pros and cons of each. We can organize a chart where members select a tweeter driver to buy and send Amir. I’ll pony up for a vintage ESS ribbon tweeter….

That info is scattered about everywhere. Zaph audio blog has a fairly big tweeter comparison page, purifi has shared info on their tweeter development and why they didn't go with other options. Honestly you can kinda sum it all pretty quickly, dome is the best shape we have for HF reproduction, ring radiators beam too much and have weird phase issues, 1" dome is about ideal, smaller ones can have too much distortion. Planar drivers generally suffer from membrane resonances and higher distortion than most domes and have some pattern control issues. Not going to get into CD's.

Basically 1" and some 3/4" domes are king, my own personal experience with various tweeter types seems to just reinforce most of what I've read from people I respect.
 
$799.95 on eBay:
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After all this time, Tekton is finally producing actual measurements… and the feet are installed !!!
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Way to go Tekton !!!
:p :p :p :p
 
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