Technics SL-1300G New Generation Grand Class Turntable

[J.M. Noble]

It's a different world and different market place than it was in the 1970s. Nobody in the mass market would ever spend the money you note above for these machines in 2024. There has been a decades-long consumer market shift that has reset expectations downward for prices of goods. These inflation equivalency calculators are usually useless because nothing is as it was in the past.

Show me a viable market for a $3,500 SL-1210MK7 in 2024.

OK:

Technics SL-1210G Grand Class at Crutchfield ($4,299.95, backordered)

It doesn't get much more mainstream than this.

The only way Technics can sell their tarted up models is with supposed improvements on motor technology and fancier materials and finishes. Are any of these changes audible? Call me skeptical.

I'm with you on the audibility of this stuff above the level of the level of my SL-1500C. The 90/10 rule still applies.

But the notion that these prices are outlandish in the landscape of audio products seems unsupported by Technics' own price lists from the 1970s.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

Technics was practically the definition of 'middle class' in the 1970s and 1980s. They were the brand that took up much of the shelf space at JC Penney and Sears, among others. They were not 'HiFi' in any respect in those days, except perhaps for their own aspirations. They got lucky with the wide acceptance of their SL-1200 turntable, mainly because DJs and urban rappers turned them into musical instruments. The only reason kids in 2024 know the Technics name is because of DJs and the 1200.

Technics has clearly decided they want no part in their earlier meat-and-potatos middle market niche these days, preferring to tart up their one big hit with multiple 'audiophile' flavors, magical talk of infinite quiet in the previously excellent DD tech, huge price markups, you know, the full Williams Sonoma treatment. It's mainly audiophile fluffery that hobbyists gobble up instead of grabbing a used MKII for $500.

I would love to take bets an old SL-1200MKII in good condition versus any of the latest models in a blind test. I'm not saying that the SL-1200 is a bad machine. I'm saying I see through their transparent efforts to elevate the SL-1200 into a piece of audiophool wallet-draining jewelry.

It's as if AR came out with the XA again, same as the old days but with a fancier looking plinth, a couple of minor changes to materials and cosmetics and MBA-approved audiophool marketing language. I'd love to see how much money could be drained from own-self-fart-sniffers with fat wallets in 2024 on new copies.

 

[MAB]

Technics was practically the definition of 'middle class' in the 1970s and 1980s.

Actually not correct. Technics were the bleeding edge of turntable technology and defined the state of the art back in the day.
For instance:

Technics SL-1000MK2 on thevintageknob.org

vintage Technics broadcast & audiophile reference turntable in SH-10B3 Obsidian plinth

www.thevintageknob.org

These various totl Technics turntables are still desirable today and still outperform just about any modern table. And they sold tons of them into both professional and home. The fact that they made turntables you saw in JC Penny is more of a testament to their market dominance, and those midrange models were fantastic. Technics also made many of the JC Penney MCS (Modular Component System) products, along with NEC and others, and those MCS units were also excellent.

While I don't buy into this vinyl revival craze, I do still listen to vinyl, and my table is also from 1977 but doesn't have the performance of many of the Technics from that era.

 

[Robin L]

I would love to take bets an old SL-1200MKII in good condition versus any of the latest models in a blind test. I'm not saying that the SL-1200 is a bad machine. I'm saying I see through their transparent efforts to elevate the SL-1200 into a piece of audiophool wallet-draining jewelry.

But the real limit would be the discs themselves. And the SL-1200 was/is a good turntable by any reasonable standard. The remake/remodel versions now available are priced similarly to the older versions in 2024 dollars.

It's as if AR came out with the XA again, same as the old days but with a fancier looking plinth, a couple of minor changes to materials and cosmetics and MBA-approved audiophool marketing language. I'd love to see how much money could be drained from own-self-fart-sniffers with fat wallets in 2024 on new copies.

AR tried that with their ES-1 model in the 1980s. And Strathclyde, Ariston and (most importantly) Linn-Sondek essentially worked off the design of the AR XA to come up with similar turntables with heavier suspensions and fancier plinths. Understand that LP fans have a collector's mentality, so it comes as no surprise that they would have a similar mentality as regards playback gear.

 

[mhardy6647]

They made some pretty nice tape decks, too.

I don't think JC Penney nor Sears had these out next to, you know, the Lady Kenmore stuff...

 

[J.M. Noble]

Technics was practically the definition of 'middle class' in the 1970s and 1980s. They were the brand that took up much of the shelf space at JC Penney and Sears, among others. They were not 'HiFi' in any respect in those days, except perhaps for their own aspirations.

The average Technics integrated amplifier in the 70s-80s had a MSRP of nearly $1,300 in 2024 dollars according to my rough and ready analysis.

McIntosh's C28 preamp was $649 MSRP in 1977, and Technics had their SU-9600 for $690 ($3,500 and $3,700 in 2024 dollars). A McIntosh 200W/channel MC-2200 amp was $1,649 in 1982 ($5,500 adjusted); just a year later Technics introduced the 300W/channel SE-A3MK2 for $2,900 ($9,300 in 2024!).

My own recollection as a teenaged hi-fi enthusiast starting in the early 80s is that Technics definitely played in the big leagues. My friend's Nakamichi didn't embarrass my Technics tape deck, for instance.

 

[ban25]

No, it's more than just the cue lever, and the aforementioned smoothness of positioning the arm in the horizontal direction.

The combination of cartridge+tonearm resonance affect the smoothness of how the cartridge is reading the grooves, as the stylus moves up/down, and sideways along the record. In some but not all cases, bad tonearm resonance causes total resonance to have slightly varying volume levels as the stylus tracks. Or simply impacts the cartridge's ability to accurately read all the frequencies in the source.

There's a wealth of discussion if you Google for "tonearm resonance." In general, higher-quality tonearms usually use stiffer, lighter materials with less resonance than a classic aluminum tonearm.

As far as the graphs go -- keeping in mind that the turntable on the right is NOT the SL-1200G but a higher-end Technics -- it's showing that the resonances are much, much flatter (non-existent, or much less) between 400Hz and almost 2000Hz.

It's a personal preference, but if I had kept a SL-1200GR I had once (not a GR2), I doubt I would upgrade to the new SL-1300G. Sure, it'd add improvements in motor accuracy and stability and the platter and plinth. But I'd prefer to also have an improved arm. A more costly but more "worth it" upgrade (to ME) would be to get some future "SL-1200G2" (or whatever they call it!!). With all the improvements from the SL-1200GR and SL-1300G, plus a better tonearm (even if they stick with the one already on the SL-1200G).

I'm not even sure if the 1200GR/GR2's arm is any different than what comes on the SL-100C or SL-1500C.

How is the cue lever on the GR? Is it well damped when dropping the needle? Is there any slack in the take up? This is my only gripe with the SL-1200MK7.

 

[JeffS7444]

Technics was practically the definition of 'middle class' in the 1970s and 1980s. They were the brand that took up much of the shelf space at JC Penney and Sears, among others. They were not 'HiFi' in any respect in those days, except perhaps for their own aspirations.

Oh but they did offer genuine exotica (sometimes only in Japan). Not just Technics, but also Sony (Esprit), Onkyo (Grand Integra), Kenwood, Denon, and others.

Dealer requirements for the big brands like Technics and Sony were too steep for most specialist dealers: The companies didn't want their dealers to "cherry pick" products, they wanted a good cross-section of their entire range of products to be represented. If anything, they wanted the more affordable items to be showcased, because that's where the real money was.

 

[JeffS7444]

How is the cue lever on the GR? Is it well damped when dropping the needle? Is there any slack in the take up? This is my only gripe with the SL-1200MK7.

Got a good photo of that part? I wonder if a drop of silicone damping fluid is all it needs.

 

[ban25]

Got a good photo of that part? I wonder if a drop of silicone damping fluid is all it needs.

Please see the attached image. Notice that the needle drops in the first 10% of lever travel, making it hard to smoothly drop the needle without crashing into the vinyl. The lever on my Pro-Ject table has a much longer throw and smoother drop -- probably the only good thing about that table!

Needle on the vinyl:

Full throw:

 

[copperblue]

Have you tried adjusting the armlift height?
https://help.na.panasonic.com/answe...rmlift-height-on-the-sl-1200gae-or-sl-1210grp

 

[ban25]

Have you tried adjusting the armlift height?
https://help.na.panasonic.com/answe...rmlift-height-on-the-sl-1200gae-or-sl-1210grp

That's a very good point, I do have an acrylic platter mat that takes up some of that stock height....

 

[drmevo]

Have you tried adjusting the armlift height?
https://help.na.panasonic.com/answe...rmlift-height-on-the-sl-1200gae-or-sl-1210grp

This was the answer for my GR. I griped about the lever when I first bought it but after adjusting (backing out the adjustment screw a few turns I believe) I don’t notice it at all anymore.

 

[ban25]

This was the answer for my GR. I griped about the lever when I first bought it but after adjusting (backing out the adjustment screw a few turns I believe) I don’t notice it at all anymore.

Excellent, will give it a try!

 

[ban25]

Have you tried adjusting the armlift height?
https://help.na.panasonic.com/answe...rmlift-height-on-the-sl-1200gae-or-sl-1210grp

Tremendous improvement. Almost full travel now and much smoother cueing. Thank you!

 

[markstein]

One must say, however, that a silicone damped lifting mechanism would have been a nice thing. I don't like the cue lever of my 1210GR (a 1800 EUR turntable).

Addition of the KAB silicone oil damper helped a lot. Plus height adjustment, as already mentioned.

 

[Pearljam5000]

 

[FLS3]

I just love my og SL-1300. The platter being the rotor of the motor just blows my mind. So clever. And the 1300 full auto system is very hardy. 50 years post manufacture and it's still working, clunking notwithstanding. Regardless, I hit go and it goes, and I don't have to get up when it's done. The hinges still hold, too.

About the only upgrade I'm after is perhaps a 1301, the quartz locked half-gen successor.

For me the TT is for fun and ritual. Frankly, having a vintage table is part of that fun. Especially when I'm cognizant of the price: performance compared to "modern" tables. I got mine for $100, spent a few dollars on caps and damping fluid, rewired the tonearm/RCAs (dead quiet), and spent more on the cart than I would have otherwise. I'd do it that way again if the budget was 5k.

New technology is always cool. But when the technology from 50 years ago is still on par... . (Quartz locked would be more accurate, but still.)

 

[Drakon]

They made some pretty nice tape decks, too.

I don't think JC Penney nor Sears had these out next to, you know, the Lady Kenmore stuff...

View attachment 391661

I have a restored 1500 in the system. Those VU meter bulbs are soldered in place BTW.

 

[Drakon]

At least the 1500C is still there for those who want auto-stop and lift.

Sometimey per several buyers reviews. So I wouldn't buy it for that feature.