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Technics SB-C700 Review (Coaxial Bookshelf)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 7 2.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 28 11.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 147 59.3%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 66 26.6%

  • Total voters
    248

Jmudrick

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Hello,
I get very similar results as @Maiky76.

If I optimise for PIR I get better results but the LW degrades a bit too much. I kept the LW optimisation. Optimisation starts at 200Hz, if you go lower, you of course get a flatter ON with a better score but it cost you some SPL and this speaker is relatively limited.
Code:
         SPK auEQ
-----------------
NBD  ON 0.46 0.43
NBD  LW 0.33 0.32
NBD PIR 0.30 0.28
SM  PIR 0.64 0.71
SM   SP 0.80 0.84
LFX       44   44
LFQ     0.60 0.60
-----------------
Score    5.0  5.4
w/sub    7.1  7.4
-----------------

Code:
EQ for Technics SB-C700 computed from ASR data
Preference Score 5.0 with EQ 5.4
Generated from http://github.com/pierreaubert/spinorama/generate_peqs.py v0.14
Dated: 2022-02-08-05:24:51

Preamp: -1.7 dB

Filter  1: ON PK Fc  2141 Hz Gain +1.71 dB Q 2.66
Filter  2: ON PK Fc  1375 Hz Gain -1.16 dB Q 3.95
Filter  3: ON PK Fc  1555 Hz Gain +1.75 dB Q 3.90
Filter  4: ON PK Fc  1759 Hz Gain -1.24 dB Q 3.94
Filter  5: ON PK Fc  8534 Hz Gain -0.99 dB Q 2.28

gives you:
View attachment 185120

Thanks, might try but for now just extended Anthem Room Correction to 2500hz. I don't hear that it's made things worse.
 

BadAudioAdvice

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Its great to see so many options for how to EQ the speakers, starting with Amir's simple one, to the more complex ones from @Maiky76 and @pierre.

However, aside from using a MiniDSP to create a crossover for a 2-way open baffle speaker (full range analog input, split highs and lows to separate amplifiers), I have never performed or have equipment for EQ.

My music is mostly on CDs and Vinyl, I subscribe to Apple Music, but my laptop is not on the latest version of macOS that allows for the lossless audio option. Also to mention, I don't have any surround sound setups, but I do have 2 subwoofers with built-in amplifiers.

The stereo amplifiers that I will use with the Technics speakers are the Topping PA50 (w. E50 DAC + ifi Zen Phono), and a variety of vintage amplifiers that have Tape Loops.

I can see how I might insert equipment through the tape loop path, but not sure how I could do EQ with the Topping setup.

Any advice would be appreciated!

*edit: Also seems like room correction is something that I should consider?
 

Doodski

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Its great to see so many options for how to EQ the speakers, starting with Amir's simple one, to the more complex ones from @Maiky76 and @pierre.

However, aside from using a MiniDSP to create a crossover for a 2-way open baffle speaker (full range analog input, split highs and lows to separate amplifiers), I have never performed or have equipment for EQ.

My music is mostly on CDs and Vinyl, I subscribe to Apple Music, but my laptop is not on the latest version of macOS that allows for the lossless audio option. Also to mention, I don't have any surround sound setups, but I do have 2 subwoofers with built-in amplifiers.

The stereo amplifiers that I will use with the Technics speakers are the Topping PA50 (w. E50 DAC + ifi Zen Phono), and a variety of vintage amplifiers that have Tape Loops.

I can see how I might insert equipment through the tape loop path, but not sure how I could do EQ with the Topping setup.

Any advice would be appreciated!

*edit: Also seems like room correction is something that I should consider?
EQ software is here and this is good for a Mac PC. That is providing the Mac will be the source.
 

Jmudrick

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Its great to see so many options for how to EQ the speakers, starting with Amir's simple one, to the more complex ones from @Maiky76 and @pierre.

However, aside from using a MiniDSP to create a crossover for a 2-way open baffle speaker (full range analog input, split highs and lows to separate amplifiers), I have never performed or have equipment for EQ.

My music is mostly on CDs and Vinyl, I subscribe to Apple Music, but my laptop is not on the latest version of macOS that allows for the lossless audio option. Also to mention, I don't have any surround sound setups, but I do have 2 subwoofers with built-in amplifiers.

The stereo amplifiers that I will use with the Technics speakers are the Topping PA50 (w. E50 DAC + ifi Zen Phono), and a variety of vintage amplifiers that have Tape Loops.

I can see how I might insert equipment through the tape loop path, but not sure how I could do EQ with the Topping setup.

Any advice would be appreciated!

*edit: Also seems like room correction is something that I should consider?
Myriad options I'm sure but I'm content using the Anthem room correction provided by $199 Paradigm PW-Links to my RME , Schitt, and Topping DACs. I employ three optical inputs and analog input from phone preamp in the main room. The RME also has PEQ ability for more fine tuned adjustments like those discussed here.
 

BadAudioAdvice

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Thanks for the quick replies!

Unfortunately, I haven't been planning on using a computer as a source, so that rules out software-based EQ.

From a quick read, it seems like either the miniDSP Flex or SHD might fit the bill as well.

My other thought was to find a vintage EQ to match up with the rest of the vintage equipment.
 

Doodski

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From a quick read, it seems like either the miniDSP Flex or SHD might fit the bill as well.

My other thought was to find a vintage EQ to match up with the rest of the vintage equipment.
Both good choices. Be careful on using a older analogue EQ because some of them have a lot of hiss to add to the audio path. The vintage Technics EQ's are nice.
 

fineMen

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The biggest problem of 2-way coaxials is anyway not the changing of the directivity for the tweeter but rather the higher IMD due to their reduced membrane surface of the midwoofer compared to a conventional one of the same outer diameter.

The changing practically is best expressed as intermodulation. It is not the directivity that changes. It is the level of some higher tone changing with the frequency of the lower tone, but direction dependend. It can be measured- Use same technology as for standard IM, but take a sample for representative directions each.

A lack of cone area by some percentage makes only fractions of a dB difference in max spl, if excursion is kept the same. Even the actual tuning, which depends on air pressure, which again depends on weather, may result in more deviation from the plan.

What bugs me with such a life-style speaker is its neglect of the physical enjoyment of music. These are sold as end-game do-not-think solutions to not-so-enthusiastic music users who feel they should have something beyond Bose. A speaker, at leat once in a while should deliver without getting screechy. Especially with sound that doesn't rely on built in codes, something beyond middle-of-the road teasers. I personally in a sudden re-packed the close British sibling to these C700, because any resemblance to actual authenticity was successfully avoided.

In short, no way that these little things are high fidelity as I understand it. The coax design doesn't help. As somebody else already mentioned, a high pass at 200+Hz may help pretty much. But still I would go for an equivalently priced Genelc or so. Just for the ease of such a move.
 
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Jmudrick

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What bugs me with such a life-style speaker is its neglect of the physical enjoyment of music. These are sold as end-game do-not-think solutions to not-so-enthusiastic music users who feel they should have something beyond Bose. A speaker, at leat once in a while should deliver without getting screechy. Especially with sound that doesn't rely on built in codes, something beyond middle-of-the road teasers. ...

In short, no way that these little things are high fidelity as I understand it....
Would these "interesting" pronouncements be based either in measurements provided here or personal experience with these particular speakers rather than some other design?
 

puppet

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I'm a little startled by the difference in the distortion levels. 10db increase in amplitude produces 20db higher distortion.
 

Thomas_A

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I'm a little startled by the difference in the distortion levels. 10db increase in amplitude produces 20db higher distortion.

Perhaps outside linear range - when you reach outside the linear range all sorts of things can happen.
 

Larry B. Larabee

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Perhaps outside linear range - when you reach outside the linear range all sorts of things can happen.
The Kef R3 takes care of that being a 2.5 way. The problem is that nobody seems to think that any improvement can be had by the better vertical directivity from a coax. Too bad they can't be designed for correct time-alignment of the drivers.
 

Spocko

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The problem is that nobody seems to think that any improvement can be had by the better vertical directivity from a coax. Too bad they can't be designed for correct time-alignment of the drivers.
For pros and enthusiasts who require best in class vertical directivity from a coax, Genelec designed The Ones to fulfill that purpose. Add GLM software for perfectly matched subwoofers in any listening environment and you have the last word in technical performance for those who want it.
 
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Larry B. Larabee

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For pros and enthusiasts who require best in class vertical directivity from a coax, Genelec designed The Ones to fulfill that purpose. Add GLM software for perfectly matched subwoofers in any listening environment and you have the last word in technical performance for those who want it.
Is it that improved vertical directivity matters at all subjectively or that like everything else it needs to be done properly and genelec can do it whereas technics and kef can't?
 

Spocko

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Is it that improved vertical directivity matters at all subjectively or that like everything else it needs to be done properly and genelec can do it whereas technics and kef can't?
It costs money and additional research/design to do it. Perlisten has done it too as a passive solution for home theater - most casual stereo listeners don't need perfect vertical controlled directivity (especially if they have ceiling treatment) but for home theater applications where ceiling reflections may interfere with Atmos overhead speakers, now you have a reason. Additionally, if you're mastering for your client and you're sitting but he/she is standing off axis, vertical directivity allows both of you to hear mostly the same thing.
 

testp

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Typical Panasonic, they make great consumer electronics with near 0 marketing, polar opposite to Sony
Also, it seems they recently announceda new model, the C600
yes, but they've should of called it something higher, for regular folks, C600 just sounds below C700 :)
nrvd.. they have smaller woofer i guess
 
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thewas

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In short, no way that these little things are high fidelity as I understand it. The coax design doesn't help. As somebody else already mentioned, a high pass at 200+Hz may help pretty much. But still I would go for an equivalently priced Genelc or so. Just for the ease of such a move.
Well as said, that is your experience and preference, mine is different, I owned similar priced Neumann (5" KH120) and even more expensive Genelec (6,5" M040) but in the end sold both and kept my 2 pairs of LS50 (original with EQ for desktop monitoring and Meta with sub for small stereo listening triangle system). For the desktop system and my SPL needs they are all enough and for the other listening system all need sub for my needs.
 

don'ttrustauthority

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Another fantastic review!

Do you think that it would be interesting to measure distortion with a 80 hz or so subwoofer considered? I see a number of tested speakers where a sub would be appropriate and wonder if bass distortion as seen here at 96 db might be tamed a bit.
 
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