Technical Help - Setting Up Components

[JBJTX81]

So I've gotten the the hifi bug and I'm picking out all my equipment. My questions (AND THER ARE A LOT!) really center around how to connect everything properly and if I need a preamp or not. I also have a few about component selection. But if I'm going to throw 3-4K into a system I want to try to do it right on the front end.

Is this example acceptable -

Wiim Ultra - line out to sub (RSL 10sMII), digital out to Geshelli Labs J2s, XLR or RAC out to Outlaw 2220 monos, speaker cables out to what ever speakers I decided to get.

Still torn at this point on speakers. Might just buy 4-5, listen to them and return all but my favorite pair.

So here are my questions -
1. The Wiim has an output voltage of 2.1, the Geshelli labs has an output voltage of 2.5, the Outlaw 2220's have an input voltage of 1.6. Do I need a preamp b/w the the DAC and amp or is this chain of components ok.
2. If I do need a preamp, should I choose one with a sub out or can I still use the sub out on the Wiim streamer? I'm confused about where the signal to my sub should originate in if there are multiple options within the chain of components. Also, I was really hoping to utilize the bass management in the Wiim.
3. I was going to upgrade the op amps in the DAC to Sparkos. Do I need 1 2 or 3 op amps. Is there any real advantage of using XLR? My cable runs from the DAC to the amp will only be a foot or 2. So can I just buy 1 op amp for the the rca out or would you suggest buying 2 and using XLR out? Or buying 3 in the event I wind up using both outputs?
4. What connection should I use between the streamer and the DAC? coaxial, optical, USB? I think I read that if you use usb that renders eq/bass management useless in the Wiim. If that is the case should I just get a Wiim Mini and throw more money into a preamp like the Emotiva PA1 that has bass management?

Does anyone have suggestions related to amplification that they feel would be better than the outlaw 2220? They seem to measure well and are extremely affordable. Everything from Schitt, Emotiva and Topping cost much more for similar watts and I'm still not sure how I feel about the Fosi V3 monos. Half the watts but 1/3 the price.

I'm sorry for the barrage of questions. I'm simply trying to learn and I'm completely new to all of this. Its definitely different than just plugging an e arc into a sound bar!

Thank you in advance for any help/advice you can offer.

JJ
Texas

 

[staticV3]

Hi JJ! Welcome to ASR.

Is this example acceptable -

Wiim Ultra - line out to sub (RSL 10sMII), digital out to Geshelli Labs J2s, XLR or RAC out to Outlaw 2220 monos, speaker cables out to what ever speakers I decided to get.

Don't really see the point in the J2s here, feel free to do WiiM Sub out->Sub and WiiM Line out->Amp.

Do I need a preamp b/w the the DAC and amp or is this chain of components ok.

You do not. Output voltage can be reduced in the WiiM Home App.

3. I was going to upgrade the op amps in the DAC to Sparkos.

Don't bother with Opamp swapping, or for that matter an external DAC. The one inside the Ultra is as good as they get.

Is there any real advantage of using XLR?

XLR inputs on your Amp can get rid of mains hum and other noises.

You do not need a DAC with XLR output to make use of XLR input. Rca works as well, with the right cable.

 

[JBJTX81]

Hi JJ! Welcome to ASR.


Don't really see the point in the J2s here, feel free to do WiiM Sub out->Sub and WiiM Line out->Amp.


You do not. Output voltage can be reduced in the WiiM Home App.


Don't bother with Opamp swapping, or for that matter an external DAC. The one inside the Ultra is as good as they get.


XLR inputs on your Amp can get rid of mains hum and other noises.

You do not need a DAC with XLR output to make use of XLR input. Rca works as well, with the right cable.

So you do not feel there would be any discernable difference b/w the Wiim Ultra's DAC and the J2 nor any any difference b/w the Wiim Ultra's DAC and the J2 with Sparkos swap?
Help me understand about the the last statement. The Outlaw amps have RCA and XLR in. If I'm going RAC out to the amp, you suggest getting a RAC to XLR cable vs RCA out and RCA in?

Thanks for your response. Again, total newb and just trying to learn as much as I can.

 

[staticV3]

So you do not feel there would be any discernable difference b/w the Wiim Ultra's DAC and the J2 nor any any difference b/w the Wiim Ultra's DAC and the J2 with Sparkos swap?

Correct.

The Outlaw amps have RCA and XLR in. If I'm going RAC out to the amp, you suggest getting a RAC to XLR cable vs RCA out and RCA in?

Try RCA->RCA first. If it works fine, great! No reason to change it.

If instead you get ground loop induced noise, look into an RCA->XLR connection. That'll likely fix it.

 

[kemmler3D]

Just chiming in to endorse StaticV3's comments here, all correct to my eye, nothing to add.

Welcome to ASR!

 

[JBJTX81]

Thank you both for your feed back. If I'm saving $400-600 on the DAC where would you spend that savings? Speakers? Amplification?

Why are the outlaw monos so cheap compared to the competition? b200 = 1200, Basx a1 = 940 Vidar = 1800.

 

[staticV3]

If I'm saving $400-600 on the DAC where would you spend that savings? Speakers? Amplification?

Speakers, UMIK-1, room treatment.

Why are the outlaw monos so cheap compared to the competition?

They have drastically lower SNR than something like the B200.

In practice, the B200 has less than 10% as much hiss as the 2220.

However, if your speaker sensitivity, listening distance, and acoustic noise floor are such that you cannot hear any hiss out of your speakers with the 2220, then switching to the B200 for its lower noise floor would be pointless.

 

[JBJTX81]

Speakers, UMIK-1, room treatment.


They have drastically lower SNR than something like the B200.

In practice, the B200 has less than 10% as much hiss as the 2220.

However, if your speaker sensitivity, listening distance, and acoustic noise floor are such that you cannot hear any hiss out of your speakers with the 2220, then switching to the B200 for its lower noise floor would be pointless.

Can you tell me more about the UMIK-1. Looks like a measurement mic when I searched it. Once I take measurements, how do I make adjustments? Do I need hardware incorporated into my system or I make adjustments in the Wiim Ultra's eq?

 

[staticV3]

Once I take measurements, how do I make adjustments?

All adjustments can be loaded into the WiiM Ultra.

Measurements with the UMIK-1 can be made using the WiiM Home App, via HouseCurve for iOS, or via Room EQ Wizard running on a PC or Mac.

 

[JBJTX81]

Rock on! Thank you. Adding the mic to the list of items! Very insightful. Appreciate the vet coaching the rookie!

 

[kemmler3D]

Just want to +1 that since you have a sub, the UMIK unlocks a quality upgrade through room correction that is probably worth 10x what the mic costs. Room correction is just insanely cost effective in terms of a sound quality upgrade and it's hard to achieve any other way.

 

[quattro98]

Which products do you already own and what is your total budget?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Biggest choice is what speakers do you intend to use (have you considered active speakers)? Everything else will flow backwards from that choice. So pick your speakers first.

 

[DWPress]

+1 regarding speakers first. This will determine how much amplification you're going to need and, potentially, the amount of work needed for room correction.

Also, that sub-out from the WiiM and onboard room correction ability it has would be pretty useless without the Umik to measure and verify your results.

 

[JBJTX81]

Which products do you already own and what is your total budget?

budget is 3-4k. I own none of the products mentioned mentioned above. I have a 5.4.2 HT in my theater room. Its about 4-5 yrs old. All RSL with a Denon 3700 controlling things. The sound is just "ok" in 2.2 in my opinion. The cg23s are like a 300/pair speaker, roll off about 90 db and they seem very forward in the mids to me. I also hate HEOS. I want better. We recently built a "shop" next to the house. I added a listening room/office inside the shop. Wife and kiddos don't like it when I get half cocked and blare music. I enjoy higher spls. I do not hear well and have moderate to severe tinnitus. I do not pick up much from my music above 7000-7500hz unless its very boosted. Otherwise it just blends perfect with the constant ringing in my ears. Room I'll be using is roughly 14x20 with lowish ceilings around 7" tall.

 

[JBJTX81]

Biggest choice is what speakers do you intend to use (have you considered active speakers)? Everything else will flow backwards from that choice. So pick your speakers first.

No I have not considered active speakers. I'm a gear head. I like the idea of building out a system. And maybe I'm wrong but I think I can ultimately create a better sounding system through individual components. If that's not the case why doesn't everyone just run sound bars or "the 9's"?

 

[JBJTX81]

+1 regarding speakers first. This will determine how much amplification you're going to need and, potentially, the amount of work needed for room correction.

Also, that sub-out from the WiiM and onboard room correction ability it has would be pretty useless without the Umik to measure and verify your results.

These are all speakers that are on my short list. I also thought that over time I could use speakers from the family of whatever I choose and monoblock amps to upgrade my HT set up and keep building/changing/evolving my 2.1 system in my listening room.

 

[kyuu]

No I have not considered active speakers. I'm a gear head. I like the idea of building out a system. And maybe I'm wrong but I think I can ultimately create a better sounding system through individual components. If that's not the case why doesn't everyone just run sound bars or "the 9's"?

Sound bars are definitely not the same as actual active speakers. That said, some of them aren't half bad these days. "The 9s" are not top of the list when it comes to active speakers, even in the budget category, IMO.

I have no issue with wanting to go the passive route if that suits your fancy. Do you have some passives in mind?

Edit: You posted your list just before I hit submit. =P I like the ELACs. Do yourself a favor and cross off GR Research from your list for just about anything. I'd also advise you look at Ascend Acoustics, and potentially Revel's entry-level M16 (which is on special at the moment). For entry-level Polks, I think anything from the ES-series is a much better bet than the R-series.

 

[kemmler3D]

If that's not the case why doesn't everyone just run sound bars or "the 9's"?

Lots of really good studio monitors are actives, those are popular around here.

The best argument for not doing actives is there are more components in one box, so if one fails the whole thing fails. If you've got separate amps, DACs, and so on, failures are limited.

Active speakers can have active crossovers, multiple amps, DSP and so on, so you can squeeze more performance out of a speaker if it's active. If you look at something like the LS60 it's got a bunch of features that you couldn't really get from a passive speaker.

 

[antcollinet]

Just chiming in to endorse StaticV3's comments here, all correct to my eye, nothing to add.

Welcome to ASR!

Thirded.

@staticV3 is always first in with concise, no nonsense good quality advice.