Tech support: what cable to use from mac to amp?

[azurememo]

I recently built a simple desktop stereo system with wiim amp pro and elac db53. The only thing I'm not sure about is the cable. I've tried 2 usbc to optical cables to connect my macbook pro to wiim amp pro.

• First one - the bit/sample is fixed at 16/48, which is not the best. Tidal exclusive mode doesn't work. However, I'm able to adjust volume from my macbook. amazon link
• Second one - it supports SPDIF and up to 24/192, which is great. Tidal exclusive mode also works. However, I can't adjust volume from my macbook, I would have to turn the volume nob on my wiim amp, which is not great in everyday use. adapter + cable

So I really wanted to know - is there a usb-c to optical cable that supports both higher bit/sample and volume control from source? Or is there something inherent about this type of cable that I can't get both at the same time?

 

[Chrispy]

I think you're chasing unimportant things primarily. You might find the right combo of gear/cablles to support your desire....but why particularly?

 

[mcdn]

TIL that the amp pro doesn’t have a USB input. Why don’t you use the headphone output on your MBP to drive the amp? The MBP headphone output is perfectly transparent.

 

[DVDdoug]

I'm a Windows guy, but if exclusive mode is like Windows it may keep the audio bit-perfect which means no volume control. But that doesn't mean you can't get 24/96 without bit-perfection.

Of course that's not just a cable. The computer sees it as a USB audio device and that device happens to convert to optical.

You can generally feed anything (any resolution) to a USB device and the drivers take care of any necessary conversions, just like you can print a high-resolution photo on a low-resolution printer. i.e. You should have no trouble playing 24/96 (or higher) but it might not get to the Wiim. That "play anything" support can be misleading because the specs might say that it supports high resolution but it's really getting secretly resampled.

First one - the bit/sample is fixed at 16/48, which is not the best.

As a practical matter. CD quality (16/44.1) is generally better than human hearing. But you're not getting "what you're paying for" or what should be possible.

 

[azurememo]

I think you're chasing unimportant things primarily. You might find the right combo of gear/cablles to support your desire....but why particularly?

Sure they are the least important part in my setup, but still a part. I'm trying to solve a problem here, and ur not being hepful.

 

[NTK]

...

• Second one - it supports SPDIF and up to 24/192, which is great. Tidal exclusive mode also works. However, I can't adjust volume from my macbook, I would have to turn the volume nob on my wiim amp, which is not great in everyday use. adapter + cable

Can you adjust volume from within the Tidal app?

 

[Chrispy]

Sure they are the least important part in my setup, but still a part. I'm trying to solve a problem here, and ur not being hepful.

I was just trying to ease you into the thought you're wasting your time/effort and just supporting audio bullshit....but you be you.

 

[azurememo]

TIL that the amp pro doesn’t have a USB input. Why don’t you use the headphone output on your MBP to drive the amp? The MBP headphone output is perfectly transparent.

I learned that if I use the headphone output, MBP is converting sound singal from digital to analog using its internal DAC, which is not so good, and I'm basically wasting the better DAC from wiim amp pro.

 

[Chrispy]

I learned that if I use the headphone output, MBP is converting sound singal from digital to analog using its internal DAC, which is not so good, and I'm basically wasting the better DAC from wiim amp pro.

You worry too much about dac involved.

 

[azurememo]

Can you adjust volume from within the Tidal app?
View attachment 465111

I can't. It's weird. Whether I'm in exclusive mode or not, the volume icon is grey and not clickable when using the second cable. The only volume control I have is the nob on my amp. The first cable, on the other hand, allows both mac system and tidal volume control but the exclusive mode doesn't work (I can turn on the toggle but it makes no difference).

 

[mcdn]

I learned that if I use the headphone output, MBP is converting sound singal from digital to analog using its internal DAC, which is not so good, and I'm basically wasting the better DAC from wiim amp pro.

The internal DAC of the MBP is essentially perfect, see my review here: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...s-of-macbook-air-2024-headphone-output.63218/

 

[kyuu]

Whether you're at 16/48 or 24/192 is irrelevant in terms of audible differences. "Hi-res" audio is mostly just a waste of bandwidth, but if it makes you feel better then go for it. But if being able to adjust your music from your Macbook is important, that's a much more real benefit than bit rates over 16 or sample rates over 48kHz.

 

[voodooless]

You can just install SoundSource, and you'll have volume control on any output you like. There is also a free solution:

GitHub - briankendall/proxy-audio-device: A virtual audio driver for macOS that sends all audio to another output

A virtual audio driver for macOS that sends all audio to another output - briankendall/proxy-audio-device

github.com

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I learned that if I use the headphone output, MBP is converting sound singal from digital to analog using its internal DAC, which is not so good, and I'm basically wasting the better DAC from wiim amp pro.

Counterintuitive, I know, but the MBP DAC is excellent, more than good enough.

 

[azurememo]

The internal DAC of the MBP is essentially perfect, see my review here: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...s-of-macbook-air-2024-headphone-output.63218/

wow i really appreciate your thorough review. Although it is good enough, I think the ESS ES9038Q2M is still the better DAC technically. The thing is, I'm not trying to spend money to upgrade MBP's DAC; instead I'm simply picking a path to connect MBP to my amp. Since I need to buy a new cable anyway, I think it is logical to go with the better option.

 

[Roland68]

wow i really appreciate your thorough review. Although it is good enough, I think the ESS ES9038Q2M is still the better DAC technically. The thing is, I'm not trying to spend money to upgrade MBP's DAC; instead I'm simply picking a path to connect MBP to my amp. Since I need to buy a new cable anyway, I think it is logical to go with the better option.

I understand your intention and will try to give you a different perspective.
I would advise against the cables you posted.
Dedicated DDCs, such as the SMSL PO100 or PO100 Pro, would be more sensible and of higher quality. A PO100 AK is both a DAC and a DDC, and, as a DAC, is measured to be far superior to the internal DAC of the WiiM Amp Pro.

And that's exactly where your error lies.
The internal DAC of the WiiM Amp Pro is measured to be only marginally superior to your Mac, about 2%, and that's completely inaudible. Much worse is that such simple, no-name cables and adapters (USB to SPDIF/Toslink) introduce jitter into the signal, making the whole thing a pointless waste of money.
This could result in the output with such no-name cables and adapters and the WiiM Amp Pro's internal DAC being of lower quality than that of your Mac.
USB audio is a solved problem with solutions like XMOS, Amanero, Xing Audio, and others, but with over 10 years of continuous development, these cheap solutions can't compete.

External DACs such as the JCALLY JM20 MAX dongle (costs less than the cables and adapters listed), SMSL SU-1, D1, PS200, and PO100 AK (DACs and DDCs with Toslink output) cost between €79 and €99 and all have measured values that are significantly higher than those of the WiiM Amp Pro and Mac.
Whether this is actually audible is rather unlikely, but it's reassuring.

 

[azurememo]

I understand your intention and will try to give you a different perspective.
I would advise against the cables you posted.
Dedicated DDCs, such as the SMSL PO100 or PO100 Pro, would be more sensible and of higher quality. A PO100 AK is both a DAC and a DDC, and, as a DAC, is measured to be far superior to the internal DAC of the WiiM Amp Pro.

And that's exactly where your error lies.
The internal DAC of the WiiM Amp Pro is measured to be only marginally superior to your Mac, about 2%, and that's completely inaudible. Much worse is that such simple, no-name cables and adapters (USB to SPDIF/Toslink) introduce jitter into the signal, making the whole thing a pointless waste of money.
This could result in the output with such no-name cables and adapters and the WiiM Amp Pro's internal DAC being of lower quality than that of your Mac.
USB audio is a solved problem with solutions like XMOS, Amanero, Xing Audio, and others, but with over 10 years of continuous development, these cheap solutions can't compete.

External DACs such as the JCALLY JM20 MAX dongle (costs less than the cables and adapters listed), SMSL SU-1, D1, PS200, and PO100 AK (DACs and DDCs with Toslink output) cost between €79 and €99 and all have measured values that are significantly higher than those of the WiiM Amp Pro and Mac.
Whether this is actually audible is rather unlikely, but it's reassuring.

Thank u for ur advice. I guess one of the reasons I wanted to go with usbc to optical was that I learned digital signal is either bit-perefct or no sound at all, so the material & quality of the cable don't matter like speaker cables do. If I go with analog to analog cable, I still need to find good quality cables right? Any recommendations? About external DACs, I never knew they could be as tiny as the JCALLY JM20 MAX dongle. Is it safe to say if I want better sound quality, going with an external DAC dongle + analog cable is the best way?

Edit: I guess I also need to worry about volume control. Do u happen to know whether volume control is avaiable with either MBP headphone jack or external DAC dongle like the JCALLY JM20 MAX?

 

[voodooless]

I still need to find good quality cables right?

No, any old cable will do. Over short distances, cables have to be really, really broken to have any influence at all.

As for volume control: the headphone jack certainly has it, as to dongles, that will depend on the dongle, but I already told you how to solve it if it's not supported by default. There should be no need to buy anything, and you can use the SPDIF connection just fine.

It's really stupid that the Amp Pro does not support AirPlay, that would have been a trivially simple and wireless solution.

 

[kyuu]

It's really stupid that the Amp Pro does not support AirPlay, that would have been a trivially simple and wireless solution.

I get that Apple folks are really used to using Airplay, but what's the advantage of it compared to using Tidal/Spotify/Quboz Connect or using the Wiim app for playback of a network share or locally stored files?

That makes me wonder... why does the OP need a cable from the Macbook to the Wiim at all? There are already solutions to do bit-perfect playback over the network.

 

[voodooless]

I get that Apple folks are really used to using Airplay, but what's the advantage of it compared to using Tidal/Spotify/Quboz Connect or using the Wiim app for playback of a network share or locally stored files?

The major advantage is that it works at the OS level. You do not need any application support to have it working. You just select your target, and it works.

That makes me wonder... why does the OP need a cable from the Macbook to the Wiim at all? There are already solutions to do bit-perfect playback over the network.

Exactly for the above stated reasons. Now, if Tidal is your only concern, then I would indeed think that the Tidal Connect thingy would be enough. But I think the volume control is the major issue here. @azurememo, did you try Tidal Connect and see if the volume control works?