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Teac A-H500i Repair?

OAV

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May 21, 2024
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Hey everyone first post on here so hi from the UK! Long term lurker first time poster... Please feel free to move this if their is a better place for it - I have a Teac A-H500i intergrated amplifier to repair from a client, Over 20 years old.. Reported issue was a 50hz mains hum plus the harmonics coming through the loudspeakers.. barely affected by the volume position. I have measured the output and I am getting arond 500uV of background noise from the amplifier with a peak at 50hz of 100uV plus the harmonics. just audible very very close to the speaker.. now to me for the use case of the amplifier and its spec sheet this is typical performance for this amplifier.. The client has already recapped the main filter caps and pre amp board. The only thing I have been able to achieve is reducing the gain of the amplifier.. it has a over 42dB of gain for a single ended linear amplifier that seems massive to me? 100mv of input gives 12.6volts out, the pre amp provides x10 gain and the power amp x12.6 gain for a total of x126 voltage gain! It seems massive for any amplifier! because the pre amp and power amp boards are seperate a simple voltage divider to the input of the power amp boards reduces overall gain to 26dB which seems more sensible and improves things massively background noise overall down to under 100uV, the pre amp seems to have no problem with high level inputs. Does anyone have one of these to compare? Am i missing something is this supposed to be some unicorn of an amplifier? Client would rather I fix the problem - But I'm not sure their is one

Many Thanks
OAV
 
Hi @OAV! Welcome to ASR.

According to the A-H500i's Service Manual, the Amp has 0.5mVrms of Z-wt residual noise, or 0.2mVrms with A-wt applied to attenuate the mains leakage (CD Direct input, input shorted):
Screenshot_20240521-213725_Drive.png

If you can confirm these values on your bench, then it seems like your client is asking for a rework/modification, rather than a repair.

The specifications also confirm your measured gain at 180mVrms to reach 50W into 8Ω -> 20*log10(sqrt(50*8)/0.18)=40.91dB of gain.
Pretty high indeed.
 
Hi @OAV! Welcome to ASR.

According to the A-H500i's Service Manual, the Amp has 0.5mVrms of Z-wt residual noise, or 0.2mVrms with A-wt applied to attenuate the mains leakage (CD Direct input, input shorted):
View attachment 370668

If you can confirm these values on your bench, then it seems like your client is asking for a rework/modification, rather than a repair.

The specifications also confirm your measured gain at 180mVrms to reach 50W into 8Ω -> 20*log10(sqrt(50*8)/0.18)=40.91dB of gain.
Pretty high indeed.
Thanks @staticV3 - as I though, and that is a lot of gain!
 
Hey everyone first post on here so hi from the UK! Long term lurker first time poster... Please feel free to move this if their is a better place for it - I have a Teac A-H500i intergrated amplifier to repair from a client, Over 20 years old.. Reported issue was a 50hz mains hum plus the harmonics coming through the loudspeakers.. barely affected by the volume position. I have measured the output and I am getting arond 500uV of background noise from the amplifier with a peak at 50hz of 100uV plus the harmonics. just audible very very close to the speaker.. now to me for the use case of the amplifier and its spec sheet this is typical performance for this amplifier.. The client has already recapped the main filter caps and pre amp board. The only thing I have been able to achieve is reducing the gain of the amplifier.. it has a over 42dB of gain for a single ended linear amplifier that seems massive to me? 100mv of input gives 12.6volts out, the pre amp provides x10 gain and the power amp x12.6 gain for a total of x126 voltage gain! It seems massive for any amplifier! because the pre amp and power amp boards are seperate a simple voltage divider to the input of the power amp boards reduces overall gain to 26dB which seems more sensible and improves things massively background noise overall down to under 100uV, the pre amp seems to have no problem with high level inputs. Does anyone have one of these to compare? Am i missing something is this supposed to be some unicorn of an amplifier? Client would rather I fix the problem - But I'm not sure their is one

Many Thanks
Just bought one of these exact amps going on 0 bad reviews. Its an old one but going to give it a go and even if warranted get it recapped. Its a monoblock system is a small box!
 
I have the same problem with audible noise (albeit only on one side!) on my highly sensitive speakers.
@staticV3 How should I go about reducing the gain, and at which stage should I do it? I'd probably say tampering with the preamp section sounds less risky to me.
@OAV
 
I have the same problem with audible noise (albeit only on one side!)
Then the other side may have a problem. I would check whether the Teac has a protection relay in the output that could have contact issues. (With the schematic at hand, yes it does. Two, actually, RY51 for the left and RY52 for the right channel output, with a pair of contacts in parallel. That relay must be in fairly bad shape, but you can always unsolder it, pop the lid, inspect the contacts and see whether some contact cleaner on blotting paper or metal polish would restore them to a sufficient degree. If all fails chances are you can adapt a standard 12V DPDT relay.)

There's more relays involved with CD Direct switching, so toggle that a few times as well. The classic screwdriver handle tap test may expose potential suspects.

You may also be hunting for a dead coupling cap, of which there are a few in the signal path as well. Sky-high ESR may mean little degradation in signal level but high effective source impedance driving up the noise.

Side note, 41 dB of gain sounds about right for a 50 wpc integrated. That your average '90s SIP package 4558 preamp and tone stage isn't the last word in SNR is another problem.

on my highly sensitive speakers.
That would be about how much in dB SPL / 2.83 V / m?

For starters, can you live without tone and balance controls? Then use the CD input and enable CD Direct, which bypasses that section entirely and uses a discrete preamp section instead (Q201-Q213, Q202-Q214). That alone should bring down the noise a fair bit. (Does it have any influence on your one noisy channel? That should help narrow down the list of suspects.)

So this is the CD Direct pre (left channel):
teac-ah500i-directpre.png

The input stage is being run decently hot at about 450 µA per transistor. Not an ideal match for a 50k volume pot (worst-case output impedance 12k5 + 120 ohm R201) though I've seen worse. I assume this thing would fundamentally benefit from source impedances down to the low hundreds of ohms. A 2SA1268G is rated for a beta of 200-400 at 2 mA, so I would expect to be looking at around -1.5 µA of input bias current. Note how source resistances at DC are mismatched (one leg sees 22k, the other 1.8k||22k ~= 1.66 k), giving a ~30 mV input offset, and DC gain equals AC gain as they skimped on the big capacitor in series with R219 so that's (1+22k/1.8k) ~= 13.2, for an expected DC offset of +0.4 V. So the +0.3 V shown seems realistic.

I noticed that this preamp has super high supply rails and could fundamentally swing fairly high output levels close to 20 Vrms. Meanwhile the power amp is a 50 wpc affair on +/-36 V with a gain of about 12.83, so even if we're being generous it's barely ever going to need 2 Vrms. I would consider giving the preamp like 10 dB more gain and attenuating the output by about 20 dB. So R219/220 = 560 ohm MF, R231/232 = 20k MF, R233/234 = 2.0-2.2k MF. I would actually prefer an R231/233 (R232/234) divider of more like 9.1k/1k to keep output impedance low, but then C217/218 should be paralleled or replaced by something like a 10µ/50-63 V (+ towards R231 or R232 respectively). You can also try bypassing the caps and seeing whether you can live with any pop noises this may cause when switching between normal and CD Direct modes.

If you want to convince the input stage to take a chill pill, R285/286 (68k, maybe 100k) and C211/212 (maybe 5p NP0?) would be the ones to address.

Stock pre+power gain looks like about 44.5 dB, yeah that's starting to get a bit on the hot side.

BTW, I think that the block diagram contains a mistake: The tone amp seems to be a line-level affair that ought to be shown connected after the discrete preamp, not before it. (This position is generally good for so-so noise levels, although the power amp's higher than average input levels would be helping here.)

If you want to mod the tone amp as well, I'd think replacing R301/302 by 10k MF and R305/306 by 11k (alternatively 10k/12k) MF would be a good start, as their stock values are degrading noise levels quite needlessly. I would also be looking out for a somewhat better opamp though the SIP case means pretty slim pickings. Maybe you can get an NJM4565L or NJM/NE5532L.
 
Holy Moly @AnalogSteph I'm going to need a few days to digest all of that!
Thank you for this - it must have taken an hour to write that post!
I don't think this buzz is relay related, it is very faint, absolutely one sided and doesn't react to the volume knob.
I will try all the trouble shooting steps you mentioned, better safe then sorry.
Regarding the mods, replacing bad caps and crappy opamps is probably a good idea. Let me have a look and think. This might be above my paygrade in terms of soldering skills and consistency.
I have seen people reporting cold or cracked solder joints across the whole board so I'll need to look into that as well.
 
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