Tariffs on Chinese Electronics

[digicidal]

Bland assertion. We were asked to avoid economics debate.

Economics != Politics (although in this case I believe they are one in the same).

 

[Ron Texas]

I'm starting to think this is a doomed topic. Tariffs on Chinese electronics will increase prices. It's not just electronics, but just about everything imported from China and have the potential to drag on the economy. Either you agree with the reasons behind the tariffs or you don't. That is both political and economic. Economics has political overtones as there are supply school and demand driven economic theories with the former being attractive to the right and the latter to the left.

A photograph of President Regan and other prominent members of his administration displayed with the above caption and context is partisan politics, and don't try to BS me into thinking otherwise. Some people are delusional enough to believe they are making an absolute moral statement when they are making a political statement.

 

[amirm]

I say we let the thread be. Don't think any new can or will be said. Let's move on...

 

[anmpr1]

I think things depend upon value and availability. I prefer to buy locally, if possible. I think most people do. But some things you will never find, locally. Example that I might have mentioned before: my AT M40x headphone (used with a Fender practice amp--not an audiophile device) headband started flaking. You know, black flakes from cheapo vinyl started covering my head. Where do you go for a replacement headband? Beats me. Seller on eeebay had AT M40x headband covers for a couple of dollars. I couldn't believe it. I think with shipping it was less than four dollars. I mean, they could have doubled the tariff on this thing, and I would have paid it.

I just checked and the price is up to ten dollars. I don't know if that is tariff related, or if the maker realized that everyone with an AT headphone now has (or is soon going to have) black flakes in their hair, so the seller figures he's bound to make a killing, price be damned.

Tip: you could easily make something like this yourself with some foam, fabric and velcro. So that is an option.

Sorry--didn't see topic closed. But it worth reactivating as a public service to keep people from having black flakes in their hair. Especially if they don't have any hair on their head.

 

[bigguyca]

@suttondesign, considering you're in Texas, how about starting a Mexican subsidiary that imports from China, then reships duty-free to the US? Heck, that's probably more profitable than actually dealing the gear!

The Mexican content would need to be something like 30% and requires certification.

 

[bigguyca]

I strongly suggest that we not go too far down the political road on this topic. In other fora, I note that people start to bail when the current political situation becomes the topic. I was merely trying to inform forum members that the tariffs are very real.

Was your idea that the people here were too ignorant (or dumb) to understand that the tariffs are real? Thanks for that vote of confidence.

 

[RayDunzl]

Tariffs list (may not be latest and greatest, but mildly interesting)

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/Tariff List (83 FR 47974, as amended and modified by 83 FR 49153).pdf

Like:

1104.22.00 Grains of oats, hulled, pearled, clipped, sliced, kibbled or otherwise worked, but not rolled or flaked

Who makes the rules. What's special about rolled or flaked oats that hulled, pearled, clipped, sliced, kibbled or otherwise worked don't qualify, that creates the exemption?

 

[GrimSurfer]

Was your idea that the people here were too ignorant (or dumb) to understand that the tariffs are real? Thanks for that vote of confidence.

That's a bit offside @bigguyca. I, for one, found the post by @suttondesign useful because there can be differences between political rhetoric, executive action, and administrative enforcement.

This isn't just about China, it's about anything that falls under the new tariff (including caps, resistors, wire, ICs etc) -- even those that make their way into US components. Knowing when such tariffs begin might be useful to anyone trying to get ahead of a price hike.

 

[suttondesign]

Was your idea that the people here were too ignorant (or dumb) to understand that the tariffs are real? Thanks for that vote of confidence.

no, sir. i was surprised that I got the bill from fedex. I thought that there may be others as surprised as I.

 

[VMAT4]

Except negative interest rates probably... always easier to get what you want when it's the most ridiculously stupid things - not nearly as easy to get something that actually benefits anyone.

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It's literally a meme that has been around for years... but to make your "safe space" a little happier - I found a bipartisan one just for you. Not that it matters, but I'm a conservative - which is exactly why what is being done to the economy (through tariffs, deficit spending, and the proposal of negative interest rates) is so upsetting.

I'm glad we've got you to keep speech free and rational, Ron.

Let's remember that deficit spending at one time was referred to as maintaining a "war time economy". As in WWI, WWII, the Civil War, etc. ... .

 

[digicidal]

Let's remember that deficit spending at one time was referred to as maintaining a "war time economy". As in WWI, WWII, the Civil War, etc. ... .

And it could certainly be argued that we've been at war in one form or another since then. It's particularly distressing in light of what appears to be an approaching global recession. Say what you will about the ultimate end of tariffs, and without debating their validity (or lack thereof) in achieving those ends - the last huge spike in deficit spending was incurred in attempt to reverse the last one... from which we're barely recovering.

All I know is that paying 10-20% more for consumer electronics looks like the least of our worries in the next several years. Europe and Asia have similarly cheery outlooks last time I checked as well.

Source CBO - Take that prognostication for what it's worth, which is possibly less reliable than a Shakti Stone.

 

[g29]

....Source CBO - Take that prognostication for what it's worth, which is possibly less reliable than a Shakti Stone.

"... Placement on automotive CPUs has measurably increased engine horsepower. ..."

Wish I would have known than when I hopped up my V-twin. A lot cheaper than the new cams too !!!

 

[digicidal]

"... Placement on automotive CPUs has measurably increased engine horsepower. ..."
Wish I would have known than when I hopped up my V-twin. A lot cheaper than the new cams too !!!

Yeah I'm pretty sure that placing them over your crotch will either prevent or cause pregnancy depending on what you desire.

 

[teched58]

Seems like now's the time to discuss if all the great low-cost Chinese DACs, amps, are gonna go up in price. If that's the case, I guess going forward it'll be Schitt all the way down? (Where do they manufacture their stuff?)

[THIS IS INTENDED AS A PRICING OF ELECTRONICS QUESTION ONLY.}

 

[suttondesign]

Yes. I had already ceased dealing the Chinese brands because of the last round of tariffs; the margins were so low it wasn't worth the time processing orders. I can only imagine the cost of any foreign brands now -- generic, kef, etc.

You may recall that in the 1970's, Japanese electronics were the thing for most people, but there was a fine-grained tiering of features, so poor kids like me always went for the fewest-featured models, and we certainly didn't buy separates. And if you couldn't afford a Pioneer receiver, you went for the Fisher. For speakers, there were lots of domestics, and also the same tiering of products. And lots of them made their own drivers.

I suspect the barrier to entry to make basic hi-fi isn't that high these days, so we might see some startups who can more or less match foreign prices, and you mention Schitt, which seems like a good example of domestic innovation. But there must still be lots of component parts which simply aren't available here.

It's a complicated issue, for sure, but there's no doubt that blocking imports with high tariffs creates opportunities for domestic production, all other things being equal. But of course, all other things don't remain equal, including currency values and politics. My own take is that the sheer volatility of current politics makes it dicey for anyone to invest in starting up a new company.

 

[amirm]

I suspect everyone will raise prices. Many components come from overseas so that alone will mean higher prices.

 

[Joe Smith]

Seems like now's the time to discuss if all the great low-cost Chinese DACs, amps, are gonna go up in price. If that's the case, I guess going forward it'll be Schitt all the way down? (Where do they manufacture their stuff?)

[THIS IS INTENDED AS A PRICING OF ELECTRONICS QUESTION ONLY.}

Schiit assembles in the U.S. but uses many foreign parts of course. I expect that as parts stockpiles deplete, they will raise their prices a bit to maintain their margins. Maybe 10-15%?

 

[JustJones]

Domestic companies will raise prices no matter where they source from or their costs. If foreign companies A and B have to raise prices no matter the reason domestic company C will as well. They'll simply stay a bit lower so you'll still feel great about the deal you just got.

 

[Inertiaman]

The most immediate impact on the ASR community of recent tariffs will be substantial increases in the effective to-your-door cost of the ubiquitous inexpensive amps/preamps/etc shipped directly from China.

The elimination of the de minimis policy (exempting shipments below $800 from any duties) will dramatically affect these products. Trump initially tried to end this policy in February, but it was rescinded days later when the commerce dept and USPS noted that they had neither staff nor systems in place to assess/apply duty to the > 4 million packages PER DAY that got de minimis treatment. However, as of this Wednesday, the WH announced that the de minimis exemption would now end on May 1 (for goods from China/HongKong) and "at a later date" for goods from other countries. They further stated that the rate on Chinese goods would be 30% of value or $25 per item (rising to $50 per item at some unknown later date). But these rates were set before China hit the US (today) with a 34% tariff on all US goods going to China. Who knows where the rates may end up after several retaliatory cycles.

Wherever this leads, I suspect the days of a $88 Fosi V3 delivered to your door will soon be gone.

 

[dfiler]

I bought directly from MiniDSP last month and got to pay the newly raised (at that time) tariff of 20% plus other fees. When the $949 device hit customs, I had to pay $268.82. This raised the price to my door to $1247.82.

With the tariff on Chinese goods now raised to 54%, the price to my door today would be at least $1540.48. That's assuming the $79.02 additional import fee was a flat fee.

Ouch. There's a big difference between the advertised price of $949 and today's true price of $1540. I wouldn't have bought the DSP at that price.

And the real insanity hasn't even begun yet. The de minimus threshold of $800 is being removed on May 2nd. Historically, no tariffs were paid on items below $800. Soon, everything entering the country will be held up while tariffs are collected.

I hope US Customs is expanding their headcount by a factor of 10! Even so, delivery times are about to skyrocket.