Tanchjim Stargate II: DSP CS43131 dongle

[Adornix_jitz]

The 2 Tanchjim devices I have currently only have 5 filters, but I did notice the latest ones have 8 filters.

And yes the Walkplay and Tanchjim App are different and the device use a similar but different protocol.

thanks for your answer. but I mean profiles not filters. can I save multiple custom profiles on the tanchjim or just one?
for example, on the fiio btr 13 one can save three different adjustable PEQ profiles on that device.

so is the capability to save PEQ profiles hardware or software (tanchjim vs walkplay app) limited?

 

[Jeromeof]

thanks for your answer. but I mean profiles not filters. can I save multiple custom profiles on the tanchjim or just one?
for example, on the fiio btr 13 one can save three different adjustable PEQ profiles on that device.

so is the capability to save PEQ profiles hardware or software (tanchjim vs walkplay app) limited?

I think there is just 1 custom profile on Tanchjim devices - but maybe this has changed with the Stargate. Basically, the Tanchjim Mobile App typically shows a couple of preset profiles ( like 'Popular' etc ) but there is only one custom one. And I think even the preset profiles are just setting the custom profile with pre-determined values.

 

[JanL]

I think there is just 1 custom profile on Tanchjim devices - but maybe this has changed with the Stargate. Basically, the Tanchjim Mobile App typically shows a couple of preset profiles ( like 'Popular' etc ) but there is only one custom one. And I think even the preset profiles are just setting the custom profile with pre-determined values.

There are 4 custom fields listed

 

[CedarX]

thanks for your answer. but I mean profiles not filters. can I save multiple custom profiles on the tanchjim or just one?
for example, on the fiio btr 13 one can save three different adjustable PEQ profiles on that device.

so is the capability to save PEQ profiles hardware or software (tanchjim vs walkplay app) limited?

Just to clarify: on a device like the Stargate-II which has no UI (there is no button…), a “PEQ profile” feature is entirely on the app side: you store/switch the profiles at the app level, push the one you want to use and it remains stored onto the device until you push some other profile.
Storing multiple profiles on the HW itself is pointless since you have no way to select them (no button, no nothing).
So what what we are discussing here are app functionalities, not really the Stargate-II hardware itself.

There are a few dongles that let you switch between different profiles stored on the HW side: for example, the Kiwi Ears Allegro Pro (KT02H20 + 2x ES9603Q) has a button to switch among 3 EQ profiles plus “flat”, and a LED indicator. So the UI is button + LED. You can modify the PEQ filters with the KTmicro tool, but each time you select the next profile, it pulls it from a NVM and overwrites your settings, so not really useful IMO... I may send them a feature request to change that behavior, but l have very little hope they’ll even consider it(I would not be surprised if they outsource their FW development).

Another example is the FiiO JD10 IEM (KT0213H I believe): you can switch between EQ profiles by pressing simultaneously the ‘+’ and ‘-‘ volume buttons on the cable. You get a voice prompt corresponding to the profile selected. The UI in that case is combination-of-existing-buttons + voice prompt. But it’s the same as the Allegro Pro: I can modify the EQ on the fly using the KTmicro tool (6x PEQ of various types), but my settings are overwritten and lost when I switch to the next profile. The firmware is just not written to support this type of functionality.

If Tanchjim were interested, I suppose they could develop a FW that would allow storing a few PEQ profiles on board, switching them with a combination of buttons from the IEM, like the JD10… But it would require the use of IEMs (or HP) with volume buttons, and I don’t even know if they are wired (or some digital signal command?) the same way…

On the other hand, I’m not sure if this type of feature is the best approach: I prefer much more the idea of a DSP-enabled dongle (or cable) that is cheap enough to leave it permanently attached to the IEM / Headphones, or a DSP that is directly integrated onto the IEM/HP.
What I would also like is the option of using the same app with different HW—what @Jeromeof is doing…

 

[Jeromeof]

Kiwi Ears Allegro Pro

Cool, I didn't realize the Allegro Pro had a button to switch EQ profiles - I must get one

 

[Jeromeof]

There are 4 custom fields listed

Actually, I hadn't noticed this before but the Tanchjim Stargate II is being detected as a Walkplay device ( makes sense that it has 8 filters then) - so the Tanchjim One DSP / Bunny DSP are both KTMicro. Seem like both Moondrop and Tanchjim have switch DSP vendor to Walkplay.

 

[JanL]

On another note, the Tanchjim Stargate II can be fairly noisy. I plugged it in the laptop with no IEMs attached and it went into high impedance/ high output mode because when I plugged in my Artti T10 I could clearly hear hiss at high volume settings. Of course the music would be unbearably loud with that output volume, but I was expecting silence given the listed 120dB S/N ratio. The Artti T10 is not even that sensitive compared to other IEMs I have. It's listed at 96dB/mW while some other ones list at 106-110dB/mW. So the hiss would be another 10dB louder on those.

 

[Jeromeof]

On another note, the Tanchjim Stargate II can be fairly noisy. I plugged it in the laptop with no IEMs attached and it went into high impedance/ high output mode because when I plugged in my Artti T10 I could clearly hear hiss at high volume settings. Of course the music would be unbearably loud with that output volume, but I was expecting silence given the listed 120dB S/N ratio. The Artti T10 is not even that sensitive compared to other IEMs I have. It's listed at 96dB/mW while some other ones list at 106-110dB/mW. So the hiss would be another 10dB louder on those.

That is pretty bad alright - I think mine will arrive in about a week so if I can't fix this remotely I am pretty sure I will add support once I get my hands on it but from what you said I probably be using it beyond just testing it.

Thanks

 

[cscs54cs]

I think I got it fixed. When you push to the device from your app, some of the PEQ bands get populated with the default web app settings of 0Hz and Q of 0. That causes the DSP to go into some sort of loop.
I connected a few times and pulled the settings, which resulted in 8 bands being displayed, but half of the bands had the zeros in frequency column. I typed in realistic frequency values, small gain of 0.1dB per band and pushed again and now it works fine.

If you can, make the default EQ values non zero for frequency and Q in your app.

I have similar problems with my jm20 pro when I try to use the website but couldn’t find out the reason. Good to know at least we are finding some fix. I wonder set a 15k with 0 db can fix the problem without affecting the sound

 

[cscs54cs]

That is pretty bad alright - I think mine will arrive in about a week so if I can't fix this remotely I am pretty sure I will add support once I get my hands on it but from what you said I probably be using it beyond just testing it.

Thanks

I wonder if this can be caused by usb noise but I don’t have enough knowledge on that. But yeah if that happened on a phone too I feel it is dick move by them to claim that performance

 

[CedarX]

Cool, I didn't realize the Allegro Pro had a button to switch EQ profiles - I must get one

As I was (trying to) explain, the profiles are not customizable—you can change them, but they don’t “stick”. There is very little difference between the profiles, gains are very low values.

Kiwi Ears also has the Allegro Mini: same KT02H20 or equivalent, no opamp, and a 3.5/4.4mm output. I believe the 4.4mm is for convenience only, and is the same output as the 3.5mm, so not a true balanced like the Pro. It officially has no PEQ credentials but appears to use the same FW as the JCally JM12 & al. So actually, there are 5x PEQ filters of various types available through the KTmicro tool (and gains, noisegate, limiter).

The form factor of these two Kiwi Ears is interesting—may work better on smartphones…

 

[Jeromeof]

As I was (trying to) explain, the profiles are not customizable—you can change them, but they don’t “stick”. There is very little difference between the profiles, gains are very low values.

OK - interesting - one thing that you might be interested in, is with the FiiO JA11 - it is supposed to have 3 "fixed" presets and one custom one - but I found I could technically write to all 4 of them.

 

[CedarX]

OK - interesting - one thing that you might be interested in, is with the FiiO JA11 - it is supposed to have 3 "fixed" presets and one custom one - but I found I could technically write to all 4 of them.

You mean presets stored on-board? How do you access these?
For the Allegro Pro (or Mini), what I did is to change the PEQ parameters directly in the KT02xxx registers, via the KTmicro tool: those changes don’t stick [EDIT **]. But, if there is a way to access and change the preset values in the NVM, then it becomes super-interesting…
Same thing with the FiiO JD10 (mostly a KZ): it’ll be cool to be able to change the presets, and even the voice prompts associated with each preset!

**EDIT: well… they stick, you can unplug the dongle, and my custom PEQs are still there and active when I reconnect but, as soon as I press the button, the next PEQ slot overwrites the PEQ registers, so my PEQ settings are lost, not saved anywhere. There is some logic to the behavior, but it’s not what I wish for!

 

[Jeromeof]

You mean presets stored on-board? How do you access these?
For the Allegro Pro (or Mini), what I did is to change the PEQ parameters directly in the KT02xxx registers, via the KTmicro tool: those changes don’t stick [EDIT **]. But, if there is a way to access and change the preset values in the NVM, then it becomes super-interesting…
Same thing with the FiiO JD10 (mostly a KZ): it’ll be cool to be able to change the presets, and even the voice prompts associated with each preset!

**EDIT

If you have JA11 and plugin it into my tool it https://www.pragmaticaudio.com/iems/ you can pull and push values to each of the presets and its saves these on the device. You can then use the tool to switch presets and pull the values etc.

 

[Jeromeof]

Also an interesting difference between the JA11 and the "fake" JA11 (JCally with the FiiO firmware) is that the JA11 needs a cable connected before it appears (or uses power I would guess) while the Jcally dongles with the FiiO Firmware seem to be always active.

 

[Jeromeof]

And thanks for the info about the Allegro Mini - I have one but I didn't realize it was a KT02H20 but yes I can detect it and push PEQ to it

 

[CedarX]

Actually, I hadn't noticed this before but the Tanchjim Stargate II is being detected as a Walkplay device ( makes sense that it has 8 filters then) - so the Tanchjim One DSP / Bunny DSP are both KTMicro. Seem like both Moondrop and Tanchjim have switch DSP vendor to Walkplay.

BTW, on my side, I only see 7x PEQ with the Tanchjim app. I do see the 8x PEQ (+ Class AB/H, Gain etc.) with the WalkPlay app.

I think the KTmicro will stay when OEMs look for an inexpensive SoC. What the CB5100-Pro gives is interfaces to any DAC/Amp—e.g. TTGK has a CB5100-Pro + AK4493S module (+two OpAmp), so it’s not CS431xxx only. The new KT0234S may target the same application (don’t know any using that chip).

As for Moondrop, the RAYS IEM is usping a SpaceTouch SPV6040. I should receive it soMetime next week, but I suspect it’s not going to be WalkPlay compatible: the WalkPlay CBHT chips are custom versions of SpaceTouch chips. So the SPV6040 is from the same family, a more advanced chip, but it may lack the TTGK/WalkPlay customization. So they may not continue with WalkPlay and do their own thing instead…

Same for Tanchjim: if they were looking for a higher end dongle for the Stargate-II, then yes, a CB5100-Pro + CS43131 is probably a better choice than a KTmicro SoC.

 

[CedarX]

Also an interesting difference between the JA11 and the "fake" JA11 (JCally with the FiiO firmware) is that the JA11 needs a cable connected before it appears (or uses power I would guess) while the Jcally dongles with the FiiO Firmware seem to be always active.

I noticed that… I wonder if there is a register to set that behavior or, most likely, it’s a GPIO hardware thing.

 

[Adornix_jitz]

Just to clarify: on a device like the Stargate-II which has no UI (there is no button…), a “PEQ profile” feature is entirely on the app side: you store/switch the profiles at the app level, push the one you want to use and it remains stored onto the device until you push some other profile.
Storing multiple profiles on the HW itself is pointless since you have no way to select them (no button, no nothing).
So what what we are discussing here are app functionalities, not really the Stargate-II hardware itself.

Thx for your extensive clarification on that topic! very appreciate and educative.

I think I wasn't precise enough on my question/wording:

I just wanted to know, if I can create and save more than one preset (PEQ profile) with my own values in that tanchjim or walkplay app? so that I can switch easily those presets (within that apps) when I'm using this dongle.

coz I'm using multiple "profiles" or tunings depends on genre I'm listening to. For example: Truthear Red eq'ed to near Harman IE 2019v2 works nice for most of my classical music but barely unlistenable to rap or punk/metal. Therefore I went more in the direction of Crinacles IEF 2025 (based on hims 5128 measurements).

 

[JanL]

Thx for your extensive clarification on that topic! very appreciate and educative.

I think I wasn't precise enough on my question/wording:

I just wanted to know, if I can create and save more than one preset (PEQ profile) with my own values in that tanchjim or walkplay app? so that I can switch easily those presets (within that apps) when I'm using this dongle.

coz I'm using multiple "profiles" or tunings depends on genre I'm listening to. For example: Truthear Red eq'ed to near Harman IE 2019v2 works nice for most of my classical music but barely unlistenable to rap or punk/metal. Therefore I went more in the direction of Crinacles IEF 2025 (based on hims 5128 measurements).

I found that Wavelet Pro is excellent at processing phone audio and it accepts EQ profiles directly from Squiglink. I have the Dusk IEM with DSP cable but it's a PITA to change profiles in the native app. Wavelet is much easier. Plus it does much more than just EQ. Well worth the asking price of $5.00 or whatever it costs now.