T+A DAC 8 Balanced DAC Review

[amirm]

Hopefully Amir’s back doesn’t give out, or the stairs magically lessen.

AVRs are not too bad. The power amps are deadly. Just posted the Marantz AVR review by the way:https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/marantz-sr6104-avr-review.14615/

 

[ENG]

I have this DAC, also without DSD conversion. At the homepage of T+A they write that there are 8 Burr-Brown chips inside the model. Maybe these chips can't deliver more ? What do I know. Hopefully Amir or other can answer.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I have this DAC, also without DSD conversion. At the homepage of T+A they write that there are 8 Burr-Brown chips inside the model. Maybe these chips can't deliver more ? What do I know. Hopefully Amir or other can answer.

What do you mean by "can't deliver more"? If you are talking about performance of the chip which as far as I know is pcm1795. Ud501 using the same chip has far better performance, even competitive to this day.

 

[ENG]

What do you mean by "can't deliver more"? If you are talking about performance of the chip which as far as I know is pcm1795. Ud501 using the same chip has far better performance, even competitive to this day.

Thank you JohnYang1997 - now I know better!

 

[Hipper]

This DAC does have a volume control - the two buttons on the right of the front panel.

The German battleship Bismarck, instead of having a steering wheel for the helm, had button controls. Just thought I'd mention it. Nothing implied.

 

[Dudi]

DACs with volume control are a new thing. Most don't have a volume control and some that do, don't have remotes. RME ADI-2 was this way until the latest version.

I have an analog source so have no choice but to use a pre-amp.

Anyway, if you all feel strong about this, and can compensate me at the rate of $1000/hour, I will add it to my DAC tests.

Just a question about, how can I find a really good balanced (analogue) volume control ? I use Matrix X-Sabre Pro directly to Purifi amp with internal digital volume control (around at -10 dBfs), theoretically analogue volume control reduces noise as well as the signal while digital volume control pushes the signal into the noise. Or am I wrong ? I didn't find analogue volume control which is at least on the same level as the internal in Matrix DAC, but I would like one.

 

[la2ygoo]

Hmm pcm1795.
Ud501 from TEAC for comparison
View attachment 72556

Has this ud501 been modified?Thd+n is much better than specifications（Distortion 0.0015% (1kHz)）

 

[JohnYang1997]

Has this ud501 been modified?Thd+n is much better than specifications（Distortion 0.0015% (1kHz)）

A little bit shielding helped one channel on the transformer interference. Other than that no modification whatsoever.
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/teac-ud501-sharp.php
For reference. That's the reason I bought one.
Oversampling = off
DF = Sharp

Also violectric v800 is also pretty good. (pcm1792)
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/violectric-v800-off.php

 

[Rja4000]

Just a question about, how can I find a really good balanced (analogue) volume control ? I use Matrix X-Sabre Pro directly to Purifi amp with internal digital volume control (around at -10 dBfs), theoretically analogue volume control reduces noise as well as the signal while digital volume control pushes the signal into the noise. Or am I wrong ? I didn't find analogue volume control which is at least on the same level as the internal in Matrix DAC, but I would like one.

I use this one.
Not cheap, but passive and build like a tank.
I use it to optimize DAC performance at required level for measurements. So should work for your needs.
There are other, cheaper or more sexy, options, with remote and so on.

 

[Hipper]

T & A - uhmmm there could be a possible joke related to the name!

In the UK we are a bit cruder. We had shops called 'C & A'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C&A

 

[Veri]

This is a review and detailed measurements of DAC 8 from German company T+A. It is kindly loaned to me by a member. The DAC 8 as tested came out in 2013 I think. Can't find the exact cost but probably in the US $2,000 to $4,000 range. There are newer versions of it now with DSD decoding and such.

While a bit dated in display technology, the DAC 8 nevertheless manages to impress with a nice chassis and controls:

View attachment 72536
​

Lots of connectivity is included in the back including the all important XLR Balanced outputs:
View attachment 72537

As you see, there is both fixed and variable output by toggling that switch. I tested it in variable mode as in fixed output it produced 4.5 volts. That is OK by itself but makes comparisons with other DACs difficult. So for most of the tests, I lowered the output to nominal 4 volts using front panel volume control (there is also a remote which I did not have).

Overall, this is a luxury feeling DAC that gives you the feeling that you bought something above mass market. I like it!

Balanced DAC Audio Measurements
As usual, we feed the DAC a prefect digital sine wave over USB at 1 kHz frequency and see what all we get:

View attachment 72538

Hey, this is nice! So often we are used to high-end audio products underperforming but this is good. Here is how it ranks compared to every DAC we have tested so far:

View attachment 72539

Since there is variable output to whopping 9 volts out, let's see how the performance varies that way:

View attachment 72540

Peak performance actually reaches a SINAD of 105 dB which is even nicer than our dashboard.

Dynamic range falls in the same "very good" category:
View attachment 72541

Same for IMD distortion:

View attachment 72542

Multitone shows very low levels of intermodulation distortion:

View attachment 72543

Linearity is almost as good as it gets:
View attachment 72544

Jitter shows a few spurious tones but not a concern otherwise:

View attachment 72546

There are two filter settings:
View attachment 72548

Could use a bit more attenuation.

THD+N versus frequency shows somewhat elevated levels:

View attachment 72547

As you see, changing the frequency of sampling did not matter so the problem must be elsewhere:

View attachment 72550

We see the problem on the right. This DAC uses the once common technique of "noise shaping" where audible noise is pushed out into ultrasonic range.

Conclusions
The T+A DAC 8 shows very good performance despite its age. No, it is not competitive with what we have available today but it has great styling and luxury feeling. If you can find one on the cheap in the used market, I can recommend it.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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What's funny to me is that the filter, noise shaping and DAC distortion is near exact same as the <$50 meizu/hidisz/sonata dongles, the cirrus logic chip seems almost like it is built to replicate the performance seen here I bet no one can tell one from the other in a controlled test!

 

[bennetng]

What's funny to me is that the filter, noise shaping and DAC distortion is near exact same as the <$50 meizu/hidisz/sonata dongles, the cirrus logic chip seems almost like it is built to replicate the performance seen here I bet no one can tell one from the other in a controlled test!

Another example from an old product, Asus Essence STX II PCIE soundcard (TI PCM1792A). With handicaps like unbalanced output and half the voltage, and in a "noisy" PC case didn't make night and day difference.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-asus-stx-ii-pci-sound-card.4915/post-111244

 

[Veri]

Remarkable, right

 

[guenthi_r]

Must be a limitation of the DAC (PCM179* Series) because these all performs similar:

 

[JohnYang1997]

Must be a limitation of the DAC (PCM179* Series) because these all performs similar:

View attachment 73099

No。https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...a-dac-8-balanced-dac-review.14608/post-451838

 

[guenthi_r]

No。https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...a-dac-8-balanced-dac-review.14608/post-451838

You´ re right. The Ud501 is dual-mono with a proper implementation, wow.

 

[Darkweb]

I have the one with the DSD converter in it. Upconverting to DSD 512 in Roon makes my Steely Dan sound good.

 

[audio1234]

Hi Amir,

did you just measure the SINAD with the variable output? I'm asking because according to the schematics there is a Buffer Stage and the an IC which manages the resistor ladder for the volume control. So it would be very interesting how the Fixed Output did perform.

kr,
--thomas

 

[capslock]

In the UK we are a bit cruder. We had shops called 'C & A'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C&A

We used to call them Cheap & Awful.

 

[0ldSchool]

What is the point of reviewing this since it's way overpriced and 5+ years old?

In case you run across one for a couple hundred $$ or being binned by someone who knows nothing. (Went over to help a friend set up his surround sound system - he had bought a home with $10-20K in Marantz equipment. The sound guy who sold him the "simpler Yamaha" told him he would do him a favor and remove all the old Marantz equipment and give him $500.) Thanks to AmirM, we know to grab the T&A if we see one, and that T&A is a respectable company.