System upgrade

[Fangren]

Hi everyone,

I am in the phase uf opgrade my audio system and I need a bit of advice and opinion on possible/suitable equipment

My current equipment consists in:
Panasonic DP-UB9000 UHD
Naim ND5XD2
Sansui AU-919
Dynaudio Excite X38
Marantz SR5014
B&W DB4S subwoofer
Other speakers to create the 7.1 sorround system

The connections are done as shown in the picture below



I would like to replace the Sansui as it is under a lot of stress as it is used as power amplifier and it is under a lot of stress with the Dynaudio;
My focus is on the hifi/stereo quality rather than home theater, and for this reason I would like to replace the Sansui only.

I have a test (of course) to evaluate equipment that may fit in my layout. My preferred local dealer trade Atoll, Musical fidelity, Moon, Mcintosh and a few other brands that are in the hifi market, but he does not have Accuphase, Luxman, Hegel.

Tomorrow I have a test and I will try
Atoll IN200SE
Atoll IN300
Moon 240i

What other brands do you advice me to look at?

Or would you rather separate at 100% the hifi from home theater and therefore get a pozer amplifier (ie Atoll AM200 either as stero amplifier or dual mono) and get some other speakers for the home theater?

Thank you very much for your advice/help/support

Antonio

 

[JeffS7444]

How about NAD's C298 based on Purifi amp modules? 340 watts @ 4 ohms, but it's just a power amplifier, so you may need to budget for a preamplifier too. March Audio in Australia and Boxem in the EU sell Hypex-based power amplifiers, and I think these are also worth a look.

Simaudio Moon 240i sounds like a poor buy: 85 watts @ 4 ohms for ~2500 USD? Seems like it would be a downgrade from your Sansui.

 

[Fangren]

Hi,

Thank you for your reply.

I have heard Nad and I am not a fan of their sound signature. I may give it a try anyway. I have to see what my dealer has.

Note that I forgot to mention. I am based in Belgium so European brands will have a good price here

 

[Wes]

what is their sound signature?

 

[Doodski]

what is their sound signature?

I used to provide warranty service for NAD and so I had the pleasure of dealing with the Lenbrook Group and many NAD models. The smaller little amps do sound different but I can't say it's better. It's just different. The tone controls sometimes are a little different than other brands and so they felt and give the impression of a different sound. I don't think NAD has a signature sound. I think part of NAD's mystique is psychological. Otherwise it was decently built and almost always didn't cascade when letting out some smoke. I would buy NAD.

 

[Fangren]

In my experience Nad has a very neutral sound signature, sometimes a bit too flat, sterile. I also experienced a slight lack of bass with demanding speakers.
I would say it is good with some speakers that color the sound on their own but with Dynaudio being neutral already I am afraid the speakers will become a bit boring.

Nevertheless I will see what my dealer has available for testing later today.

Thank you very much for the advice.

 

[boXem]

Hi,

Thank you for your reply.

I have heard Nad and I am not a fan of their sound signature. I may give it a try anyway. I have to see what my dealer has.

Note that I forgot to mention. I am based in Belgium so European brands will have a good price here

I know a company located near Belgium making nice power amplifiers. Just sayin'

 

[Fangren]

I know a company located near Belgium making nice power amplifiers. Just sayin'

And the name is...?

 

[jae]

What is your budget?

 

[Fangren]

What is your budget?

I would push it up to 2.5k€.

I want a good amplifier that I may resell in the future for a good price, but I do not want to waste money in a super good amplifier that I cannot enjoy (due to space and speakers limitation)

 

[boXem]

And the name is...?

Will PM you

 

[Willem]

For power amplifiers, nothing beats Hypex Ncore or Purify based models for quality and value for money. They are also energy efficient, which is increasingly important giving thre rising cost of electricity, and the need to care for the environment.

 

[jae]

I would push it up to 2.5k€.

I want a good amplifier that I may resell in the future for a good price, but I do not want to waste money in a super good amplifier that I cannot enjoy (due to space and speakers limitation)

Luckily at that price you can more or less have the "best". A purifi-based amp will run you about €1100-1400 (such as the march audio p452 or audiophonics HPA-S400ET, NAD C 298 was also suggested which may have better warranty but you will pay more). Then use the remainder of the budget to buy a Okto dac8 stereo (one of the best DACs and has included pi-based streamer). May be a bit of a wait list for that product, though. Alternatively you can buy a Topping D90/RME Adi-2 DAC for standalone dac. If you need extra analogue input/preamp you can buy Topping A90 (adds 1 xlr and 1 rca and one of the best headphone amplifiers) or wait for the Topping Pre90 which will have an adapter for multiple inputs if you have other sources.

All these products are European too except the Topping (Chinese, but they should have a distributor in Poland I think). RME is German, Purifi is designed by a Belgian for a Danish company, Okto is in Czechia, and Audiophonics sells Purifi-based amps out of France.

 

[boXem]

Didn't know that Australia was now part of EU. I guess they waited for their cousins to leave it .
EU also has something called VAT, which makes the cheapest Purifi offering at 1500 € for the consumer.

 

[CDMC]

And the name is...?

You should check out Boxem Audio. They have an auto turn on also, which most don’t.

 

[CDMC]

what is their sound signature?

It is quite unique, it is the sound of a low voltage signal being converted to a larger voltage signature. Mine has the sound of low distortion and no clipping because it has plenty of power.

 

[Fangren]

You should check out Boxem Audio. They have an auto turn on also, which most don’t.

Done and unfortunately they do not fit my needs as for input format. Moreover I am looking for an integrated, not for a power amplifier

At the moment I am testing a
Moon 240i
Atoll in200sig

Starting point is a Sansui au-919.
It is a very good vintage amplifier, warm and muscolar, well defined across the whole stage. Bass are present and well defined.

Quick impression on the performed test

Atoll in200sig
Audio definition is good, comparable to the sansui, but the big power supply it is very muc present with a strong bass, sometimes overwhelming when you listen to heavy bass songs. Soundstage good, good separation of voices and it does not run warm.

Moon 240i
Soundstage incredible. I have a 7.1 home theater in the same room and I wondered if I was using it in place of the stereo amplifier. Music had a new life and a scene opened when listening to live music. The presentation is warm, but the bass are not heavy, they are all around the room sorrounding the couch. Very flat response.
I felt nevertheless I was stressing it too much in terms of volume and for this reason I decided a second test where, based on these first impressions, I will challenge my music environment with:

Accuphase E-270
Moon 340i
Naim supernait 3

 

[HuubFranssen]

Hmm interesting test... how did it end?

 

[Willem]

Any level matched blind tests?

 

[Fangren]

Hmm interesting test... how did it end?

Ok so before jumping to conclusion a small background of the action taken.

- Each amplifier was connected and left on for 24hours at least before testing. This was done because I performed the test during a confinement and the electronic was not plugged in for a long period;
- I used the amplifier with what, according to specification, it was the best connection suggested by producer. This means that the Naim streamer was connected with the Supernait using the proprietary cable

- Test were performed over different hourse of night and day, to make sure that I could get the most minimizing the environmental adverse events

- The same piece of song was played over each amplifier several time before switching when direct comparison were performed

My summary.

- Supernait 3 is a very neutral amplifier, too flat to my ears. The sound was clean but lacked of any kind of excitement. I was so pissed and disappointed that I would have even preferred an Atoll at 1/3 of the price for the kind of performance. Change the cables to normal RCA did not improve the sound quality. Bass was not very much in control.

- Moon 340i, a real piece of art. Sound is quite perfect. Just as its little brother the stage is huge. Using One - Metallica, it was incredible. The elicopter in the intro was so open in position that I had to check if my sorround was on and I was playing this song with the home theater. I was a bit disappointed by the fact that the sound stage as open as it was... lacked a bit in precision in the center.

- Accuphase E-270, first of all the look. Either you love it or you hate it. There is no neutral here. From a sound point of view the stage was open, defined in position even in intermediate position between the speakers (not just in the center); bass defined, powerful, never overwelming and the sound has always the same tonal balance, no matter the volume you listen at.

Any level matched blind tests?

I was able to perform blind test with my wife. She was the one listening as I made the connection so I based part of my listening experience on what she reported (it was 60 me, 40 her).

The Supernait was out of the game quite early, so I did more extensive tests on Moon and Accuphase and I found out
- sound stage wider in the Moon but Accuphase was way more precise
- digital source available on board with the Moon, with Accuphase it is an upgrade
- one single remote can control all function on the Moon, the Accuphase requires you to stand if, for example like in my case, you are using a double source one of which is in your bypass input
- Accuphase easier to listen, more neutral, more relaxing, the wider stage made the Moon a bit more difficult and "fatiguing"
- Accuphase is bigger
- My wife (Achitect) stated that the moon had an anonym look

In the end the Accuphase won the challenge and I bought it.
And I do not regret even if it was not adviced by the site I just do not use the balanced input, even if I wonder if I would be able to hear the difference (not tested, yet)

I will have to upgrade the speakers now. But it will come not earlier than next year, or maybe in the future house