System for bedroom :Genelec 8030+a sub, or Genelec 8050?

[Pearljam5000]

And apologies for replying to myself, but just to add...

Personally I think you are FAR better off in a small room with smaller Genelecs and a sub, as opposed to big Genelecs. First of all the sub option will go way deeper. But more importantly, you have more control. Speakers that are too big can easily overpower a room with standing waves and room nodes, and the levels of bass cut afforded by the dip switches may not be enough. With a sub you can turn it way down if needs be, and you have more control over the level and slope of the bass enhancement.

It works staggeringly well in my home office and subjectively sounds absolutely superb.

My only fear is the smaller monitors will sound small

 

[AnalogSteph]

Define "sound small". Something like the 8030s should sound pretty "grown up" even just by themselves, let alone with a sub. These go rather deep enough for most normal music that's not excessively heavy on deep bass.

Also, we still don't even have a rough idea of room dimensions and projected listening distance.

 

[samysound]

My only fear is the smaller monitors will sound small

is this more of a psychoacoustic/perception thing? assuming enough loudness and distortion is within reason, what does it matter if the loud speaker is small or large (other than min listening distance to achieve coherence)?

 

[Pearljam5000]

I once listened to the Genelecs at the store, the 8030 sounded much smaller, 8050 sounded huge in comparison, I don't know if it's psychological or something but it was very obvious, since that day I felt I must have that "big" sound.

 

[samysound]

I once listened to the Genelecs at the store, the 8030 sounded much smaller, 8050 sounded huge in comparison, I don't know if it's psychological or something but it was very obvious, since that day I felt I must have that "big" sound.

I wonder if you would have thought the same if you had your eyes closed and the 8030 were high passed with subwoofers?

 

[sweetchaos]

I once listened to the Genelecs at the store, the 8030 sounded much smaller, 8050 sounded huge in comparison, I don't know if it's psychological or something but it was very obvious, since that day I felt I must have that "big" sound.

That sounds like the deeper bass of the 8050's compared to 8030's is causing this perception?

 

[q3cpma]

My best guess is that this "small sound" thing may be the lower and smoother baffle step that bigger cabinets exhibit. If that is the case, the only speakers sounding bigger than they are would be using some kind of advanced LF directivity control mechanism:
* Passive controlled cancellaton: D&D 8c and ME Geithain.
* Active controlled cancellation: Kii Three, B&O Beolab 90 and GGNTKT M1 & M2.
* Special cabinet and/or driver loading: Genelec's Ones.

 

[HooStat]

Special cabinet and/or driver loading: Genelec's Ones.

I would not have thought that the Genelec Ones had any special control of LF directivity. Can you clarify? Perhaps it is more subtle than with the D&D 8c or Kii Three? This would be fascinating for me to understand better.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Well the 8050 cabinet is bigger than 8030 so it makes sense it will sound bigger, no?
Also amps more powerful, woofer is also bigger and also the tweeter.
I was listening to Nirvana's unplugged switching between the 8030 and 8050 and the 8050 sounded bigger and more "present", it's hard to described in audiophile terms.

 

[GDK]

Well the 8050 cabinet is bigger than 8030 so it makes sense it will sound bigger, no?
Also amps more powerful, woofer is also bigger and also the tweeter.
I was listening to Nirvana's unplugged switching between the 8030 and 8050 and the 8050 sounded bigger and more "present", it's hard to described in audiophile terms.

Maybe it was just louder?

 

[Chippyboy]

My only fear is the smaller monitors will sound small

Well if I close my eyes I can tell WHERE my 8020D's are, let alone how big they are. They don't exist!

But I am listening in near-field mode - which of course is what they are designed for. I guess the same may not be true if you are trying to use them in a large(r) room and are sitting several metres away.

 

[q3cpma]

I would not have thought that the Genelec Ones had any special control of LF directivity. Can you clarify? Perhaps it is more subtle than with the D&D 8c or Kii Three? This would be fascinating for me to understand better.

See the AES publication about the Ones' design: https://downloads.ctfassets.net/4zj...l_Loudspeakers_with_Integrated_Waveguides.pdf
Finally, the paper presents the concept of acoustically concealing multiple
woofers under the waveguide, enabling the creation of a large continuous front
baffle surface for mid and high frequencies. The two woofers spaced to the ends
of the enclosure lay under the waveguide and acoustically combine to create
controlled directivity in bass frequencies
...
Because the two woofers are spaced at a certain
distance from each other, they create increased
acoustic directivity along the axis of displacement.

Mind you, the effect is not as dramatic as the cancellation methods. See this polar map comparison of the 8350A, 8351A and 8351B, which share the exact same enclosure size:

The advantage can only be seen in the vertical axis of the 8351A (the generation this paper is about) and was given up on the 8351B for higher headroom due to a lower W/M crossover frequency.
The vertical LF directivity is still smoother in the 8351B than the 8350A, due to that mechanism.

 

[richard12511]

See the AES publication about the Ones' design: https://downloads.ctfassets.net/4zj...l_Loudspeakers_with_Integrated_Waveguides.pdf
Finally, the paper presents the concept of acoustically concealing multiple
woofers under the waveguide, enabling the creation of a large continuous front
baffle surface for mid and high frequencies. The two woofers spaced to the ends
of the enclosure lay under the waveguide and acoustically combine to create
controlled directivity in bass frequencies
...
Because the two woofers are spaced at a certain
distance from each other, they create increased
acoustic directivity along the axis of displacement.

Mind you, the effect is not as dramatic as the cancellation methods. See this polar map comparison of the 8350A, 8351A and 8351B, which share the exact same enclosure size:

The advantage can only be seen in the vertical axis of the 8351A (the generation this paper is about) and was given up on the 8351B for higher headroom due to a lower W/M crossover frequency.
The vertical LF directivity is still smoother in the 8351B than the 8350A, due to that mechanism.

The vertical directivity actually looks a little better than the horizontal, or at least it looks to be controlled to a lower frequency. Very unusual for a speaker to have better vertical dispersion control than horizontal, but it makes sense when looking at the speaker dimensions and considering its coaxial configuration.

 

[q3cpma]

The vertical directivity actually looks a little better than the horizontal, or at least it looks to be controlled to a lower frequency. Very unusual for a speaker to have better vertical dispersion control than horizontal, but it makes sense when looking at the speaker dimensions and considering its coaxial configuration.

From my understanding, it come from the output being summed between the woofers, thus producing a louder sound at the front.

 

[daftcombo]

Thanks for the comments @Chippyboy

Did you purchase any of those yet?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Did you purchase any of those yet?

Lol
Thanks for then question, I'm still undecided unfortunately.
Option 1 : save up for 8351B or 8361A and never upgrade again.
2: Getting the KH310 and not having to wait for a year or so to save up more money but not as good as the Ones
3: The 8350, compromised but not too much.
4: 8030 or 8330+ sub, the best for my wallet but with the most compromise

 

[daftcombo]

Lol
Thanks for then question, I'm still undecided unfortunately.
Option 1 : save up for 8351B or 8361A and never upgrade again.
2: Getting the KH310 and not having to wait for a year or so to save up more money but not as good as the Ones
3: The 8350, compromised but not too much.
4: 8030 or 8330+ sub, the best for my wallet but with the most compromise

8361A in a small bedroom ?

 

[Pearljam5000]

8361A in a small bedroom ?

Yeah it's a 3X3 meters roomz obviously not ideal but I'm currently living in parents house and thinking of the future
I believe GLM will help with the weird room

 

[daftcombo]

Then a coaxial speaker is better. See this chart:

8351 easier than 8350 because you can sit closer.