System design for large open-plan space

[notanllm]

I'm considering designs for a casual listening system for the open-plan living space of my house. I have some unusual constraints, so I'm seeking advice on possible approaches.

Space: weirdly large. Over 1000 sq ft with high ceilings. In terms of volume, probably equivalent to 6-8 typical medium-large rooms. See diagram. Red dots indicate convenient places to place speakers (mantel, behind sofa, kitchen island).

Use case: listening to music while cooking, entertaining toddler, doing chores, hanging out. Often moving around this large open area. I don't want to have to constantly change where the music's playing or have it sound bad in one place or another.

Budget: around $1000 USD.

So far, I've found a few options, none of which seem ideal.

• Bookshelf speakers on the mantel with eg a Wiim amp pro. Should sound good in the living room, but kitchen will be very far away and off axis. Another constraint is that the mantel is not very deep. So I'd probably be limited to on-wall designs. The Kef Q4 seems to tick all the boxes - good off-axis, not too deep. But a bit over budget.
• Sonos or the like. The Era 300 seems sorta omnidirectional. I could put one in the living room and one in the kitchen, so would always have a speaker nearby, which is good. But I'd have to get a new app (blech). I am suspicious by nature of this sort of tiny, high-tech speaker, but the tests don't lie, they have a pretty impressive response dpwn to 40hz.
• Proper omnidirectional speakers like the Ohm Walsh. Seems ideal but out of budget.

These constraints may be totally unrealistic. But I'm willing to compromise on sound quality to some extent, as long as its not annoyingly bad. For context, the status quo is a cheap bluetooth speaker or my wife driving me insane by playing music on her phone speakers.

 

[Everett T]

There are only a few strand mount speakers that will give you good bass extension and SPL (Unless you listen at 5' or closer) and not for a $1k budget. I wouldn't believe the Sonos speakers published specs, unless they include measurements or have been .measured by a 3rd party.if you upped your budget to $1500 to $2000, you could get a decent sub (that WiiM sub is intended for nearfield, maybe midfield, usage) a sub like the RSL speedwoofer 12s or 10s would be the minimum that will get you decent low end and the SPL needed to be effective You've talked about speakers and subs, what will the sources be and what about powering the speakers?

 

[Matt_Holland]

What about two Wiim amps to create two separate or linkable zones? Speakers could start off 2nd hand and be upgraded when funds allow. Prioritise the living area for speaker quality.

 

[staticV3]

A traditional Stereo system doesn't make sense when you'll be moving all over the place and never seated within the Stereo triangle.

IMO, the best option would be either a wide directivity Mono speaker placed in a corner or along a wall for good coverage of all listening positions (for this I'd consider one of Ascend's Center speakers to reduce ceiling/floor reflections)..

..or you could place an omnidirectional speaker roughly in the middle of the room.
Here you could consider the Apple Homepod, SRS-RA3000, Devialet Mania, or at the high end the Cell Alpha.

The Era 300 isn't very omni btw: https://www.rtings.com/speaker/graph/5030/directivity-graph/sonos-era-300/34837

 

[notanllm]

]You've talked about speakers and subs, what will the sources be and what about powering the speakers?

Source will mostly be spotify but sometimes other apps (soundcloud, libby, etc). Always wireless from our phones, ideally easy to connect and swap sources.

Power is an open question, depends on the design I settle on.

 

[notanllm]

The Era 300 isn't very omni btw: https://www.rtings.com/speaker/graph/5030/directivity-graph/sonos-era-300/34837

Good to know! I based my impression on qualitative reviews. Hadn't seen any measurements, so thanks for the rtings link. I guess Sonos is off the table then - happy to avoid another app!

Thanks for the suggestions, too. I'll start reading.

 

[notanllm]

IMO, the best option would be either a wide directivity Mono speaker placed in a corner or along a wall for good coverage of all listening positions (for this I'd consider one of Ascend's Center speakers to reduce ceiling/floor reflections).

I poked around their website a bit. Nice that they post measurements. The contour plots are quite impressive. For example, the 2EX V2 is flat up to 60-70 degrees off axis!

Placing that single speaker would be the tricky part. I could probably find a spot that is reasonably close to all rooms, or less than 60 degrees off axis from all rooms, but not both.

A couple of follow-up questions:

1. Their measurements were taken at 2 meters. Does directivity typically change over distance? For example, could I expect similar directivity at 6 meters?
2. A single mono speaker is new to me. What might the rest of the system look like between phone and speaker? How does the stereo signal get converted to mono?

 

[staticV3]

For example, could I expect similar directivity at 6 meters?

Without a doubt.

What might the rest of the system look like between phone and speaker?

For example, WiiM Mini/Pro/Pro Plus -> Left OR Right Line out (not both) -> Fosi V3 Mono -> Speaker

How does the stereo signal get converted to mono?

The two channels are simply summed inside the WiiM. (There's a Mono setting in the WiiM Home App specifically for that)

 

[Flaesh]

What a challenge!)) There are many possible solutions, and the amplitude and frequency requirements, as well as the need for stereo, are quite vague. Also, keep in mind that reflected sound will predominate within a few meters of the speaker.
My room is much smaller, about 30x14x10 feet, and the single stereo system can be heard from both the MLP and other areas. Music is also quite audible in the kitchen and bathroom (they're separate rooms).
If I were you, I'd start with a decent stereo system in the "living room". If it's hard to hear musik in the kitchen, add a second zone, maybe even a mono omny speaker.
Unfortunately, my crappy homemade home stereo is over 1000 bucks.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

What about two Wiim amps to create two separate or linkable zones? Speakers could start off 2nd hand and be upgraded when funds allow. Prioritise the living area for speaker quality.

I would concur with a 2-Zone approach (2 WiiMs). Music could be synced across the zones, but each zone can be EQ'd with Room-Fit individually.

KEF Q4 Meta: 5.6 inches deep ($1200/pr)
AsciLab F6Bs (sealed): 6.0 inches deep ($895/pr TestedAudio.com)

Q4 does not appear to closely approximate the F6Bs in terms of FR and DI.

 

[Ruediger]

My recommendation is WiiM streamers or amps for the overall usability and a focus on good wifi possibilities and coverage.

Proper subwoofers seem out of budget. Maybe omnidirectonal speakers like JBL or Bose. Stereo zones seem also out of budget.

With the amp models the speaker topic can change any direction later.

 

[notanllm]

Thanks everyone! I appreciate the different perspectives.

The 2-zone approach makes a lot of sense, and is probably the endgame regardless of where I start. There is line of sight between the mantel and kitchen, perhaps 30 degrees off axis. So maybe it would work with wide-directivity speakers, at least until I get a separate kitchen setup.

Anyone know of wide-directivity speakers that would meet the mantel depth constraint (7")?

 

[staticV3]

Anyone know of wide-directivity speakers that would meet the mantel depth constraint (7")?

The Ascend Luna V2 have very wide (but short) directivity at 6" of depth.

If the short directivity is an issue, the Titan dome version alleviates that while still offering quite wide directivity thanks to the complete lack of waveguide.

Let me just reiterate that, unless you will be spending a significant chunk of your time seated within the Stereo triangle with equal listening distance to each speaker, I do not think you'll be well served by a Stereo system.

 

[Flaesh]

And let me just reiterate - at a great distance you will be hearing predominantly multi-reflected sound.

 

[thcdru2k]

I personally would still prefer a real stereo pair in living room because when guest come to listen they will likely see big visual floorstanders and identify that as a listening zone. Then you can fill the kitchen area with mono speakers / in-ceiling as you see fit. WiiM devices (amp or non-amp with external amp) to sync the two areas. Good sound where it matters while maintaining consistent coverage. KEF Meta comes to mind for the living room.

 

[berjine]

For a huge space like that i would try to install as many speakers as I can
This allows you to have a more even distribution of the sound power when you move around (like what you would find in a bar for example)
Each speaker is not very loud and you are never very far from a speaker

I hate to have only one mono or a stereo pair in a living space because you are always too far or too close

With four well placed speakers it's already much better

To do this I would get some Wiim Minis and some second-hand studio monitors like JBL 305P/308P for example (Adam TxV or Kali are also great)

 

[notanllm]

I am leaning toward an approach that combines aspects of several of your ideas.

The corner of the loft has a nice, elevated position overlooking most of the space. I'm thinking of mounting a pair of JBL 308p to that corner, with one overlooking the living space and another overlooking the kitchen. They could be angled toward the most common places we spend time. Source would be a Wiim Pro+ with both channels set to mono. Under $600 total with used monitors!

This seems like it ought to provide decent coverage. We'd never be super far from a speaker. And if I ever want to upgrade, I could use these components as a kitchen-focused stereo system, and put a nicer and better-looking stereo system in the living room.

Downsides I see: the sound would come from an odd place, eg, behind you if you're in the living room facing the hearth. There are still some places that would have a large angle to the speakers. Bass response will probably be limited with such a large space. And we'd have no way to listen to music in only one room - if kid's music is playing in the living room, it's playing in the kitchen too.

Still, with my budget, there are going to be downsides regardless, and this approach seems to minimize them reasonably.

Do any of you see problems I'm missing? Have any suggestions for improvement?

 

[Flaesh]

Maybe an omni? But inexpensive Hi-Fi omni models are [almost?] nonexistent.

 

[notanllm]

Maybe an omni? But inexpensive Hi-Fi omni models are [almost?] nonexistent.

Yeah, that seems like the "right" solution. But I couldn't find anything between the portable omni speakers @staticV3 suggested and expensive ones like the Ohm Walsh. I think the portable speakers will leave me dissatisfied with bass response.

 

[Marc v E]

For a huge space like that i would try to install as many speakers as I can
This allows you to have a more even distribution of the sound power when you move around (like what you would find in a bar for example)
Each speaker is not very loud and you are never very far from a speaker

I hate to have only one mono or a stereo pair in a living space because you are always too far or too close

With four well placed speakers it's already much better

To do this I would get some Wiim Minis and some second-hand studio monitors like JBL 305P/308P for example (Adam TxV or Kali are also great)

This is what I would do too.

Filling that space with loud enough sound that's not too loud in one place and not too quiet/mumbled in another is why I would choose many speakers that project the same mono sound over a stereo pair.

(Other hifi aspects like stereo image are of no use in such a large space.)

You could also add speakers when funds allow and where required to get an even sound.