Syng Cell Alpha - 7.1 sound with three speakers ?

[mononoaware]

I respect what audiophiles try to do and like,

I also consider myself just a “critical listener of music”.

An audiophile is one to enjoys listening to recordings of Nature and Locomotives etc through their carefully chosen system which they consider reproduces the sounds and dynamics within 99% accuracy of “real life”.

In fact “true” audiophiles are against sound reproduction altogether and wake up at 4am just to travel to a certain railway crossing to listen to the sounds in person.

 

[mononoaware]

I think it's an apples and oranges discussion. Get an ELAC and you get Andrew Jones' desired frequency profile, and that's it. You like it, you like the speaker. You don't, you don't. The Cell has the Syng acoustic engineers' signature, likely Kyriakakis', but it's a self powered, DSP driven device. The sound is determined to a degree by software already and the preferences they chose. That doesn't necessarily reflect on the speaker performance per se.

They way you describe Elac vs Syng, it seems like apples to apples comparison?

“Get an ELAC and you get Andrew Jones' desired frequency profile, and that's it. You like it, you like the speaker. You don't, you don't.”

“The sound is determined to a degree by software already and the preferences they chose.”

Both having “preferences” (sound coloring chosen by the designers).

The real test I think is how they subjectively perform in a 3 speaker (3x Syng) setup.

Can you achieve an adequate/compatible “immersion” with just 3 speakers instead of 5?

I think not. . . but at least they made an attempt.

IF they unlock/provide tone control, it can be anything anyone wants it to be within the confines of it's absolute +/- 3db capability.

You can already apply PEQ/DSP correction via source software if you wanted to, but manufacturer capability may be more advanced and take into account the speaker design. . . it is a gamble if they will even release the feature.

 

[dduck]

Done watching @joentell 's review. Thanks Joe!

Confirmation bias is always a thing... but I think we're pretty much aligned in our impression and opinions. Sound is a bit warm but not too crazy. Not as bright as the Phantoms. I wanna call it a mainstream tuning by (or for?) middle aged guys and the music they like? Not objective, but engaging, which usually seems to mean a bump in the mids and solid bass.

As for his questions about stereo imaging: Having more than one definitely nails that. Is it better than a comparable priced set of traditional amp/speaker/sub? I honestly can't answer objectively or comparatively, as I don't have a reference frame. All I can say is that it definitely works for me.

I think the questions are really:

1. Do you have 3-5k to drop on a set of speakers including all other equipment you would need (amp etc.)?
2. What are you expectations? Or perhaps rather: what is your usage scenario?

I just want pretty good sound for my music and video of choice in a somewhat challenging room. The price is OK to me. And if they match or beat the HomePods on 5.1 for the video I watch, I'll be satisfied.

 

[eyemgh]

They way you describe Elac vs Syng, it seems like apples to apples comparison?

“Get an ELAC and you get Andrew Jones' desired frequency profile, and that's it. You like it, you like the speaker. You don't, you don't.”

“The sound is determined to a degree by software already and the preferences they chose.”

Both having “preferences” (sound coloring chosen by the designers).

The real test I think is how they subjectively perform in a 3 speaker (3x Syng) setup.

Can you archive a adequate/compatible “immersion” with just 3 speakers instead of 5?

I think not. . . but at least they tried.

You can't alter an ELAC without an external device. My suspicion is that you will be able to alter a Cell.

As for 3 Cells vs. 5.1 vs. Atmos, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Atmos and 5.1 are very position reliant. The promise from Syng, not yet fully realized, is that you will be able to place sounds within a space agnostic to listener position, at least that's how the Wired article described it.

 

[dduck]

The promise from Syng, not yet fully realized, is that you will be able to place sounds within a space agnostic to listener position, at least that's how the Wired article described it.

Not an expert, but I think that would require an object based format. Essentially one channel per item you would want to be able to move around, and then doing the equivalent of real time ray tracing on those.

If the format doesn't isolate the individual sources, you'd have to rely on algorithms for that. I can't even begin to bound how hard that would be, but translating from Comp Sci Speak to normal words "hella difficult, perhaps impossible - or else very error prone"

 

[eyemgh]

Not an expert, but I think that would require an object based format. Essentially one channel per item you would want to be able to move around, and then doing the equivalent of real time ray tracing on those.

If the format doesn't isolate the individual sources, you'd have to rely on algorithms for that. I can't even begin to bound how hard that would be, but translating from Comp Sci Speak to normal words "hella difficult, perhaps impossible - or else very error prone"

This is the section of the Wired article I'm referring to:

"Stringer also showed me some tricks that aren’t part of the initial release, but highlight Syng’s possibilities. One demo involved a specially recorded version of “Eleanor Rigby” by a string quartet where Stringer's team was able to isolate each musician. Using the slick Cell app, they showed me how you could drag and drop each instrument as if moving the actual instruments to different parts of the room—violin on the couch, cello near the kitchen door. In another demo, Syng staff acoustic engineer Elisabeth McMullin showed me how the system could integrate sounds from a recording (in this case, a Radiohead song) with other songs, or even sound effects like footsteps, birds, or sirens. In these cases, Syng is essentially providing the equivalent of a soundboard in a recording studio, where you can lower or raise the volume on each track. But instead of making the track louder or quieter, you’re moving it in space."

 

[WHO23]

Oh, Joe's review is in!

Great! Now Joe has to review the other UFO speaker for comparison purposes

 

[dduck]

So in my 2nd. impressions I mentioned that some recordings acquired an unpleasant thump, whereas other tracks that I consider dark had no perticular change in their profile.

I am starting to suspect either a placement problem or a tuning/software mistake.

I decided to check how they sounded with fewer than 3 active cells. I started with just 1. No spatial sound. But also no thump. Hmm.

I then added the 2nd. cell, and in the process moved it a bit further away from the wall (now 2ft as recommended instead of 1ft.). Now I got spatial sound, but also the beginnings of a thump.

Finally I moved the 3rd (rear) Cell to be both more centered behind me, and further away from walls and other obstructions. No real change in the spatial sound - expected, as I still don't have access to 5.1 inputs - but also no particular change in the tonality/thumping. Still there though.

My guess at the moment is that there's either a peculiarity in my room or placement, or a resonnance in the bass spectrum that the Syng software is sensitive to, ot I guess rather NOT sensitive to. It truly sounds like there's a few deeper notes that acquire positive interference and get strongly amplified.

Still playing around with that over the weekend. I still hear that particular rumble in some cases, and it's unclear to me if it's something that's supposed to be there in the mix (it's from a movie) or a tuning/placement/software issue.

 

[Zvu]

Without you making a frequency sweep at listening position we'll never know.

 

[dduck]

Without you making a frequency sweep at listening position we'll never know.

I know. But I don't have the equipment to do that.

EDIT: Best I can do is to break out the headphones and give the same tracks a listen, but that's a subjective and derived measure of just one of the three components., and won't tell us anything about the room or the speakers.

 

[dduck]

Heh...

Placement issue, corner reflection. Moving the offending unit a foot or so resolved it. Ordered some corner treatment blocks just in case I need more tweaking for it.

 

[dduck]

All right, placement resolved, corner treatment in place and recalibrated.

Basically remove the list of Muse tracks with a bad result, and that's my new review. It's still a warm speaker, but much less asymmetric than my first impression led me to believe.

I'm gonna settle in with them for a while, and probably won't have anything new to report until I get the HDMI cable for 5.1 surround... which I guess is really not a big concern for most people on this forum.

 

[eyemgh]

All right, placement resolved, corner treatment in place and recalibrated.

Basically remove the list of Muse tracks with a bad result, and that's my new review. It's still a warm speaker, but much less asymmetric than my first impression led me to believe.

I'm gonna settle in with them for a while, and probably won't have anything new to report until I get the HDMI cable for 5.1 surround... which I guess is really not a big concern for most people on this forum.

Remember where you sit will impact the bass too. If your head is close to the wall behind you, it will be more extreme. Enjoy! Looking forward to mine!

 

[dduck]

Remember where you sit will impact the bass too. If your head is close to the wall behind you, it will be more extreme. Enjoy! Looking forward to mine!

Well, it's not TOO bad once The Corner Of ****** Bass has been tamed through positioning and damping. That being said, there's a lot of stuff not on the drawing to the right. Sort of your big open-plan kitchen/living room thing.

Thing will be better once I move back to Denmark and set up in our huge living room somehow.

 

[eyemgh]

Well, it's not TOO bad once The Corner Of ****** Bass has been tamed through positioning and damping. That being said, there's a lot of stuff not on the drawing to the right. Sort of your big open-plan kitchen/living room thing.

Thing will be better once I move back to Denmark and set up in our huge living room somehow.

Bouncing from the left, but not from the right probably isn't ideal. Good luck with the move.

 

[dduck]

Bouncing from the left, but not from the right probably isn't ideal. Good luck with the move.

Well. It's what I've got

One of the reasons I was so interested in the Alphas is the room correction for flexible placement. I know I am challenging it a lot here, and I'm not expecting miracles.

EDIT: Move is "a ways out", probably a year or so the way things look right now, so I'll just live with the compromises of my apartment until then. For sure the place in Copenhagen has other compromises, the real world is ugly and dirty.

 

[ElNino]

Syng posted an article about measuring these a few days ago: https://syngspace.medium.com/loudspeaker-specifications-use-and-abuse-9cb88c47a217

I don't think this new article says much that those on this forum aren't already aware of, but I hadn't been following this thread and had missed the posters who mentioned that Chris Kyriakakis is involved with Syng. That is pretty cool.

 

[dduck]

So I have a theory that might explain the issues I experience and the discrepancy between Linus' and Joe's experiences.

I mentioned that I experienced some tracks as very dark. I got rid of the worst by moving them, and at that point most recordings sounded good. But some still persisted in sounding very very bass heavy, to the point of being unlistenable.

Today I experimented with the USB sound input... and all the issues went away.

I switched back and forth between AirPlay and USB several times, and the difference on the problematic tracks was VERY obvious.

Is this then a problem on all recordings, and just not noticeable on lighter mixes? Hard to say. Also can't say for sure if this is just an issue with multiple units.

@joentell it looks like you used USB input for the measurement part at least?

 

[dduck]

Whelp, I'm out

Given that I have shared my initial opinions, it would be pretty unfair not to share this current state of affairs. TL;DR - my issues may get resolved shortly, but my circumstances don't allow me to wait around for that. I may give it a go again the future.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Syng/comments/owwr42

 

[amirm]

Did you already return it? If not, I could test it and then send it along to them. Will not be an easy device to measure but we could try.