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Synergistic Research apparently at "war" against Gene from Audioholics

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I don't know ... what's wrong with there being a third party testing facility sponsored by a trade group? Companies submit their products for testing to get a "seal" which reflects the products' viability ... and they pay the costs for said testing (and seal).

Right now this is a bit like the wild west. It's why, for the most part, we license contractors, doctors, etc. Without this, anything goes.
People should have to back up silly claims/products .. or die on the vine.
 

paulraphael

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The FCC regulates broadcasting, everywhere else.
There should be no safe haven for disinformation.
This is the British approach, and I like it. Their government council holds advertisers accountable for all factual claims.

I work in advertising / marketing, which makes me like the approach even more. I've always felt that the way to eliminate b.s. marketing is to never work for b.s. companies. I won't do it. No-b.s. laws would level the playing field and turn down all the noise.
 

David Harper

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companies selling CBD (cannabidoil) online have been making such outrageous claims about it's health benefits that the FDA has now sent written warnings to at least six CBD sellers to cease and desist or they will be subject to legal action. This is unusual because the govt. normally doesn't involve itself in the supplement industry. Most of the stuff on the shelves at GNC is a total waste of money. But millions (including me) have bought some of it. The big scam now is testosterone boosters. And joint supplements. And fish oil supplements. Placebo-controlled clinical trials have mostly proven that none of these work. I took 30mg of CBD everyday for two months. It did absolutely nothing. But the supplement industry is enormously profitable. 30 billion dollars a year. I guess the government can't be in the business of protecting us from ourselves when it comes to snake oil.
 
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If you are crazy enough to blow 30 grand on a piece of wire because advertising told you to do so--you deserve to get taken to the cleaners.

Ignorance used to be an excuse but anyone can check anything electrical on engineering websites--search function is a critical skill. I can't feel sorry for anyone that gets duped by audiophile nonsense, it is just a hobby and in the greater scheme of things to worry about, who cares about audio? It is goofy hobby that is not required to live so let it all hang out and there is a sucker born every minute--and two to take him.

$15,000 purses, $100,000 for a wedding dress and 5 digits for a pair of shoes. Fashion is expensive but I don't see anyone posting that people should lose their freedoms and the government should regulate clothing fashion, or purses, wallets, shoes or the stupid things people do with their cars.

It's not like some guy with his wife pregnant with triplets, just getting started in this world and skrimping and saving to get enough space for his much larger family in a few months is purchasing audio foolery. Most likely, it is some person that wants to feel special, likes his ego stroked with his pile of things and has the money to throw away to do it. Sure, it is a huge waste of money but that person has the personal responsibility not to get taken. I figured out when I was a child watching Saturday morning cartoons that commercials and adevertising is a bunch of BS, if you make it to adulthood thinking advertising is real, that is your delusion as you have more problems than meer audio trinkets.

How many people that shop for clothing get butt hurt because some nut pays 5 figures for a pair of shoes? Why would they? How come audio people get all wound up because of so much audio BS? Probably because it makes the term "audiophile" mean a clueless technologically illiterate person or a sucker and they wish to get rid of idiots in the hobby? Heck, audio attracts idiots--one of the rare hobbies that invovles technology that a person can be an "expert" by just claiming it. I can be an audio expert and be utterly clueless how it works! Can't do that in the computer hobby, not in the automotive hobby by any means but in audio you can! Just claim you have "golden ears" or something and win!

Ever hear the term "foodie"... a person that likes food and for some reason has a supernatural ability to taste food or something? Now that took some effort, food tastes good! I guess now we have golden tongues AND golden ears? Wait, wuhuuuzat? Golden tongue is slang for...oh yeah, I guess golden tongue means something a lot different from taste buds...

So relax, the audio hobby has been full of crap long before most of us were born. I tend to ponder the type of person that would purchase such crap, maybe they don't have anything productive to do? Ever see who attends audio shows? Hmmm... I hope my life remains as exciting and rewarding as it has been so I never get to that level of boredom! Just think, a hobby where you sit around on your ass for hours on end!

I find it darkly amusing--plus a good physical warning to me when I see crap like that. Smile, wave and get out of there before things get really weird. Scientology, flat earthers and audiophiles...gotta go! I vote let those people burn money as long as it keeps them off the streets at night. People like all sorts of things that make them feel better---does not matter if it's true! Look at people that watch sports... cheering for millionaires because they can throw a ball in a hoop....fascinating!

George Carlin was right...
 

RayDunzl

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Most of the stuff on the shelves at GNC is a total waste of money. But millions (including me) have bought some of it. The big scam now is testosterone boosters. And joint supplements.
My knees were bothering me, and getting worse, for unknown reasons and for lack of any good reason, to the point where it was very difficult and painful to get down on the floor or to get back up without something to grab onto to assist. I was ready to make an appointment with an Orthopedist or whatever the appropriate medical specialist might be. Same with getting up from a chair - couldn't do it without assisting myself.

The little woman said try some over the counter glucosamine hcl, which she had been taking.

So I did two hits, took a nap, woke up a couple of hours later, and to my utter amazement, the pain part was gone.

That was a few weeks ago, Kept taking it too, sporadically, no return of the problem, which was becoming rather debilitating.

I'm not a pill-taker, so the above came as a complete surprise.

YMMV, of course.
 
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^^ had the same recommendation from an ortho last week. What I thought was a ligament issue the last few years was diagnosed as arthritis. The ortho indicated glucosamine seems to help 70-80% of the people who take it. He said it is very inexpensive, so probably worth giving it a try even though his claim of 70-80% did not sound like truly scientific results.
 

Mart68

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This is the British approach, and I like it. Their government council holds advertisers accountable for all factual claims.

I work in advertising / marketing, which makes me like the approach even more. I've always felt that the way to eliminate b.s. marketing is to never work for b.s. companies. I won't do it. No-b.s. laws would level the playing field and turn down all the noise.
The UK has the Advertising Standards Authority but that is an independent regulator paid for by advertisers, it isn't a government body and has no legal powers. Effectively it is self-regulation. It does work reasonably well though.
 

noiseangel

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So this isn't illegal to claim something that isn't scientifically proven?

I can cure Covid! Illegal.
I can change quantum physics of a piece of copper with a Tesla coil from eBay! Legal.
 

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Jim Matthews

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I think the point has been missed.

Were there any requirement for proof, such as a UL certification the threat of legal action would not hang over Gene, or any other whistle blower.

Because these claims fall outside the purview of any agency, the threat of a SLAPP suit is used to silence critics.

My objection isn't about fleecing the gullible.
 

SimpleTheater

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The FDA regulates drug sales, even online.
ICE regulates, and confiscated counterfeit goods, where detected.
Nice to know the drug war has ended and counterfeit goods are so hard to get into people's hands. We just keep winning these wars against the bad guys.

The FCC regulates broadcasting, everywhere else.
Nice to know the the biggest pockets get to broadcast around the country while using gov't to limit any new competition.
There should be no safe haven for disinformation.
And these regulations have eliminated disinformation? :rolleyes: It's worse than ever.
Spare us the Libertarian Fairy tales.
Spare me your big brother utopian views.


But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Please specify how you would write legislation that would keep Synergistic Research from selling $30,000 cables that do nothing different than $15 cables. I have an open, if skeptical, mind.
 

mansr

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If you are crazy enough to blow 30 grand on a piece of wire because advertising told you to do so--you deserve to get taken to the cleaners.

Ignorance used to be an excuse but anyone can check anything electrical on engineering websites--search function is a critical skill. I can't feel sorry for anyone that gets duped by audiophile nonsense, it is just a hobby and in the greater scheme of things to worry about, who cares about audio? It is goofy hobby that is not required to live so let it all hang out and there is a sucker born every minute--and two to take him.

$15,000 purses, $100,000 for a wedding dress and 5 digits for a pair of shoes. Fashion is expensive but I don't see anyone posting that people should lose their freedoms and the government should regulate clothing fashion, or purses, wallets, shoes or the stupid things people do with their cars.

It's not like some guy with his wife pregnant with triplets, just getting started in this world and skrimping and saving to get enough space for his much larger family in a few months is purchasing audio foolery. Most likely, it is some person that wants to feel special, likes his ego stroked with his pile of things and has the money to throw away to do it. Sure, it is a huge waste of money but that person has the personal responsibility not to get taken. I figured out when I was a child watching Saturday morning cartoons that commercials and adevertising is a bunch of BS, if you make it to adulthood thinking advertising is real, that is your delusion as you have more problems than meer audio trinkets.

How many people that shop for clothing get butt hurt because some nut pays 5 figures for a pair of shoes? Why would they? How come audio people get all wound up because of so much audio BS? Probably because it makes the term "audiophile" mean a clueless technologically illiterate person or a sucker and they wish to get rid of idiots in the hobby? Heck, audio attracts idiots--one of the rare hobbies that invovles technology that a person can be an "expert" by just claiming it. I can be an audio expert and be utterly clueless how it works! Can't do that in the computer hobby, not in the automotive hobby by any means but in audio you can! Just claim you have "golden ears" or something and win!

Ever hear the term "foodie"... a person that likes food and for some reason has a supernatural ability to taste food or something? Now that took some effort, food tastes good! I guess now we have golden tongues AND golden ears? Wait, wuhuuuzat? Golden tongue is slang for...oh yeah, I guess golden tongue means something a lot different from taste buds...

So relax, the audio hobby has been full of crap long before most of us were born. I tend to ponder the type of person that would purchase such crap, maybe they don't have anything productive to do? Ever see who attends audio shows? Hmmm... I hope my life remains as exciting and rewarding as it has been so I never get to that level of boredom! Just think, a hobby where you sit around on your ass for hours on end!

I find it darkly amusing--plus a good physical warning to me when I see crap like that. Smile, wave and get out of there before things get really weird. Scientology, flat earthers and audiophiles...gotta go! I vote let those people burn money as long as it keeps them off the streets at night. People like all sorts of things that make them feel better---does not matter if it's true! Look at people that watch sports... cheering for millionaires because they can throw a ball in a hoop....fascinating!

George Carlin was right...

This is more or less how I have felt about audiophile type BS for a long time. I am sometimes happy to pay for things like nice industrial design, built in north America or EU. Hell I even think tubes and turntables are cool even if they are lower performance than modern equivalents.

Live and let live as they say. People fight for the opportunity to pay 80k for a plain stainless steel Patek Phillipe watch. The world is a crazy place. One key difference is most of these fashion type companies dont push outright lies and dishonesty. Quantum tunneling, 200$ sockets with just a small cap contained, magic dots to randomly be placed in the room etc. These are outright fraud in my book. That 2000$ wallet doesnt promise you the ability to fly for example.

Anyways not sure what I'm on about. Stuff like this will be in the market. I think the internet age is a good time to live in to not get fooled by this fraud, but it seems to get reinforced in some circles.
 

MattHooper

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Re: who is buying expensive audio cables:

Most likely, it is some person that wants to feel special, likes his ego stroked with his pile of things and has the money to throw away to do it.
That's a pretty typical suggestion from tweak/cable skeptics, but I don't find it to be generally true. (Having been participating in many of the subjective-based forums for decades, and knowing such audiophiles). The main driver for why most audiophiles are buying expensive cables is the same for why they are spending more money than the average joe on speakers, amps etc: they really believe it makes a difference to the sound of their system. When you are in the "trust your ears" paradigm, that's how it works. Go to any subjective-based forum, e.g. audiogon etc, and you'll see tons of people who are not "rich" but who have guided what disposable income they have in to their audio system, which will often included boutique cables. Again, because they are convinced they hear a "lowered noise floor, blacker background, greater micro dynamics" and all that.



Ever hear the term "foodie"... a person that likes food and for some reason has a supernatural ability to taste food or something? Now that took some effort, food tastes good! I guess now we have golden tongues AND golden ears? Wait, wuhuuuzat? Golden tongue is slang for...oh yeah, I guess golden tongue means something a lot different from taste buds...
As a "foodie" myself (yeah, I'll cop to the much maligned term), that's generally not what it means. "Foodie" generally denotes "a person with a particular interest in food; a gourmet" or "A foodie is a person who has an ardent or refined interest in food and who eats food not only out of hunger but also as a hobby." And many of course will follow food fads.

To be a foodie is not to claim Golden Taste Buds (though some may). It's just an ardent interest in food, restaurants etc. This is what for instance separates me from certain friends, or my wife's attitude towards food. For me the greatest thing in the world is an interesting/delicious meal at a great restaurant. It's where my disposable income goes (aside from audio). I hang out on food boards, exchange notes, learn about different restaurants and chefs etc. My wife couldn't give a hoot, nor some of my friends (though other friends are "foodies" and join me in these pursuits).

No claim to be a super taster, just a higher level of enthusiasm and time spent than the average person, just like being an audiophile.
 
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I was reading around on Audiogon earlier today when I encountered this. I can’t help but wonder if Ted Denney is a troll having a giant laugh at everyone talking about him, a thief who is happy to take people’s money, a truly deluded fool, or all three

To prove I didn’t make this up, it’s the 3rd post down in this thread

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussi...=website&utm_source=sendgrid&utm_medium=email

His claim is:

“When building cables at the Synergistic Research factory, we listen to spools of individual conductor strands to determine their audible signal direction or, should the conductor run in the direction it’s pulled from the spool, or in the opposite direction when worked into a cable? The differences heard are the difference between a more solid and focused sound, and one that is phasy and incoherent. Other differences include, correctness in timbre for instruments, and the presents or a lack thereof of ringing in high frequencies.

Ted Denney

Lead Designer— Synergistic Research Inc.”


Are we to believe that those who work at the Synergistic Research factory spend time listening to giant spools of wire to find out whether the cable “sounds better” running right to left or left to right? How the hell are audio cables directional? How is this guy still in business?
 

JustJones

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listen to spools of individual conductor strands to determine their audible signal direction or, should the conductor run in the direction it’s pulled from the spool, or in the opposite direction w

Must be what all those telecom guys are doing standing around those giant rolls of wire. Lots of work if they get it backwards and need to pull it out.
 
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