• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Swan dive into the D class

D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
I've not found amp "sound differences" worth any particular expenditure of time/effort. How do you perform your AB comparison?
Power and damping factor is noticeable with certain speakers. As such also a sound difference.
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,751
Likes
5,910
Location
PNW
Power and damping factor is noticeable with certain speakers. As such also a sound difference.
Damping factor? What speakers are particularly subject to that aspect? Power is power, on its own not a sound quality difference per se, but insufficient power could be an issue I suppose....
 
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
Damping factor? What speakers are particularly subject to that aspect? Power is power, on its own not a sound quality difference per se, but insufficient power could be an issue I suppose....
Ones that are difficult to control. May be a combination of things. I have speakers with seven drivers in each column and I hear better tighter bass with a high damping factor amp.

And yes, lack of power is also a consideration if the amp can't supply what's needed it's a bad experience.
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,751
Likes
5,910
Location
PNW
Ones that are difficult to control. May be a combination of things. I have speakers with seven drivers in each column and I hear better tighter bass with a high damping factor amp.

And yes, lack of power is also a consideration if the amp can't supply what's needed it's a bad experience.
What speakers do you have?
 
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
What speakers do you have?
It's a pair of System Audio Mantra 70.

I would actually rather use my Yamaha A-S1000. I admire its jewelry like appearence and its heavy overbuilt chassis and the view through the hood. But I must admit that if I use either my P3200 or P7000S Yamaha pro power amps I just get a better performing system.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,751
Likes
5,910
Location
PNW
It's a pair of System Audio Mantra 70.

I would actually rather use my Yamaha A-S1000. I admire its jewelry like appearence and its heavy overbuilt chassis and the view through the hood. But I must admit that if I use either my P3200 or P7000S Yamaha pro power amps I just get a better performing system.
The same effects with Teufel M200/M6000 (first generation).
So how does damping work with the passive networks for this "control" in these speakers? How did you do your comparison with various amps?
 

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
So how does damping work with the passive networks for this "control" in these speakers? How did you do your comparison with various amps?
You're thinking of the 100mohm or more DCR of the inductor to the woofer?
 
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
So how does damping work with the passive networks for this "control" in these speakers? How did you do your comparison with various amps?
I know what you are implying, why don't you go right ahead and call it lies?

The scientifically method of me taking out the power chord, 2 x RCA, 4 x banana plugs and lifting the heavy iron away and setting the new block of iron in.

I don't really know per se if it's the damping factor that does it but what else should it technically be? A difference is present though. And as I wrote, I would rather have my A-S1000 on the table top than one of the pro amps.

Edit: And the behaviour in play with the crossover, the answer to that is; the result must depend on the amp output impedance, ability to supply at any given moment and impedance dip or peak and what's at the secondary side of the crossover network. The load may or may not be a complex one (I have seven drivers in a speaker) and each speaker load is different so I don't think you can give one-answer-fits-all to this (trick) question and at least not for the sake of belittling me or others for hearing a difference in amplifiers.
I really don't think one are able to dismiss a postulate like this without actually having the same speaker load and amplifiers.

Anyway
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,751
Likes
5,910
Location
PNW
I know what you are implying, why don't you go right ahead and call it lies?

The scientifically method of me taking out the power chord, 2 x RCA, 4 x banana plugs and lifting the heavy iron away and setting the new block of iron in.

I don't really know per se if it's the damping factor that does it but what else should it technically be? A difference is present though. And as I wrote, I would rather have my A-S1000 on the table top than one of the pro amps.

Edit: And the behaviour in play with the crossover, the answer to that is; the result must depend on the amp output impedance, ability to supply at any given moment and impedance dip or peak and what's at the secondary side of the crossover network. The load may or may not be a complex one (I have seven drivers in a speaker) and each speaker load is different so I don't think you can give one-answer-fits-all to this (trick) question and at least not for the sake of belittling me or others for hearing a difference in amplifiers.
I really don't think one are able to dismiss a postulate like this without actually having the same speaker load and amplifiers.

Anyway
You made the claim, so support it. A sighted and no actual quick switching between amps makes for more anecdotal material around here. I don't know what you heard or think you heard, just a poor way of going about a comparison. Passive network would interfere with the whole back emf thing, and most modern amps have been shown to have sufficient damping factor for quite a while now. Tube amps can be weird, tho.

ps and am not even going to comment on that goofy speaker brand you've got there.
 
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
You made the claim, so support it. A sighted and no actual quick switching between amps makes for more anecdotal material around here. I don't know what you heard or think you heard, just a poor way of going about a comparison. Passive network would interfere with the whole back emf thing, and most modern amps have been shown to have sufficient damping factor for quite a while now. Tube amps can be weird, tho.

ps and am not even going to comment on that goofy speaker brand you've got there.
"Most modern amps". "Sufficient". What kind of vague subjective words are those?

Would any kind of amplifier be fitting for subwoofer duty if it just have enough power?
Are all speaker impedances the same?

And no. You don't know what I heard. That's why I'm describing it. -And you may never know, if you don't have the combination of amplifier and speaker that makes it a problem.

I don't like your way of insulting. Please refrain from name calling, insults and calling other peoples equipment for goofy. It's not only low and arrogant but also shows you haven't actually done any resemblance of investigation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
I will just leave this bookmark here as it supports the idea that not every amplifying equipment sounds the same..

 

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
I'm willing to entertain the idea that different amps may sound different, especially on "difficult" speakers. But we're on ASR, so the realities of (for example) the very finite DCR in a passive crossover can't be passed over without skepticism on our part.
 
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
I'm willing to entertain the idea that different amps may sound different, especially on "difficult" speakers. But we're on ASR, so the realities of (for example) the very finite DCR in a passive crossover can't be passed over without skepticism on our part.
You are entitled to be skeptic. I have stated earlier that I don't know the exact reason for the different sound I can hear when I change my amplifiers. But there is a difference and also data here and there to back it up.

Otherwise I will read and try to understand your and others arguments for dismissal of the measurements referred to in this thread. E.G. Benchmarks calculations and pma's measurements.
 

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
You are entitled to be skeptic. I have stated earlier that I don't know the exact reason for the different sound I can hear when I change my amplifiers. But there is a difference and also data here and there to back it up.

Otherwise I will read and try to understand your and others arguments for dismissal of the measurements referred to in this thread. E.G. Benchmarks calculations and pma's measurements.
I believe Benchmark was making the rather optimistic assumption of a 0 ohm DCR crossover coil. Those are rare and expensive ;)
 
D

Deleted member 48726

Guest
I believe Benchmark was making the rather optimistic assumption of a 0 ohm DCR crossover coil. Those are rare and expensive ;)
Please be more accurate. Where and how?
 
Top Bottom