• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Surround speaker height - general consensus on 2 feet above ear level? (close distance, music only)

ernestcarl

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,106
Likes
2,313
Location
Canada
As a follow up, if someone wants to know: i "solved" this lipsync-issue with Netflix by kicking Dirac and the center speaker out, configuring the RME as 4.1 (without center) and setting the delay for the surrounds via Equalizer APO. Latency is now small enough so sync is no problem anymore. I tried to correct the center with EQ Apo, but it just doesn´t sound right compared to R+L, which are supported by the KH750.

FYI: uncorrected center speaker (blue) vs. corrected L+R+subs (orange)(MMM measurements) - no wonder it sounds better with a phantom center:
View attachment 195893

You can also use JRSS and manually EQ (if wanted) before mixing the center to the L and R channels... that's what I do anyway.
 
OP
DJBonoBobo

DJBonoBobo

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
1,360
Likes
2,851
Location
any germ
You can also use JRSS and manually EQ (if wanted) before mixing the center to the L and R channels... that's what I do anyway.
Oh, I have decided against using jRiver for Netflix. I made one try, but i disliked the whole jRiver experience so far. Also, i realized that i also want it to work with the Disney+ app and did not really follow through, so i don´t know how it would have worked with jRiver in the end. The EQAPO-solution seemed easier, at least for me.
I still use jRiver if i want to listen to upmixed music or if i want to play offline-videos.
 

ernestcarl

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,106
Likes
2,313
Location
Canada
Oh, I have decided against using jRiver for Netflix. I made one try, but i disliked the whole jRiver experience so far. Also, i realized that i also want it to work with the Disney+ app and did not really follow through, so i don´t know how it would have worked with jRiver in the end. The EQAPO-solution seemed easier, at least for me.
I still use jRiver if i want to listen to upmixed music or if i want to play offline-videos.

Unfortunately, the manual methodology and workaround one needs for JRiver can be overwhelmingly tedious.
 

tifune

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
1,085
Likes
767
Today i looked at the hardware options again (IOTAVX AVX17, Denon, ...?), but i think i will look a bit more how to solve the delay-issue. All of this hassle is simply ridiculous. I just want to use my very capable hardware instead of buying everything a second time (TV, AVR and so on), only because of DRM.... No wonder people are still pirating stuff.

Edit: If I had seen the IOTAVX earlier, I might have gone for that instead of the RME UCX II, but now I have the two KH750s connected digitally and the others with jack cables (instead of XLR). No desire to rebuild everything again!

Unfortunately this was my exact concern, as badly as I wanted to go the same route. Sorry it has been so trying for you. Completely agree about DRM; currently having a very frustrating time getting Apple Music's Atmos content to playback correctly and if there were "another option" I'd jump on it immediately. Streaming from my Win10 PC, DD+ displays on my Denon but only front and rear height L/R work. On my apple tv, all channels work but the device doesn't recognize that my ID has an Apple Music subscription and only let's me play 90 second previews.

Glad you solved the center issue, sort of. Centers are a frustrating thing themselves. they don't always sound right upmixing 2ch; without them downmixed content can sound strange. I gave up on that as well and added a center where we watch movies, then setup nearfield 10.1 (no center) in my home office for 2ch Auro3D. Obviously that's an unreasonable financial strain to solve the issue and likely not one I'd suggest to most, but spend your $ where you spend your time (I work from home for 5 years now, will never accept a position otherwise).

BTW, what do you mean "jack cable"? SPDIF/AES?
 
OP
DJBonoBobo

DJBonoBobo

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
1,360
Likes
2,851
Location
any germ
BTW, what do you mean "jack cable"? SPDIF/AES?

Sorry, the phallic thing i mean is called TRS, i think?

1648461677541.png
 
F

freemansteve

Guest
I don't mean to cause problems, but you said you wanted to mostly play music.....

If so, how much of that is genuinely recorded as surround sound, as opposed to just simulating it?

If it were me, I'd spend a similar budget on a good and simple stereo set-up rather than surround gear - I think you'll get better sound for the same money.

I have some wall-mounted 'bookshelf' speakers and a pair of powered subs, which sound lovely for music from my Evo 75, and they 'disappear'. Also, when I had friends staying, we watched Dune and The Green Knight in 4K, and they were shocked that a modest system did a startling job on the films. But music was the main thing....
 
OP
DJBonoBobo

DJBonoBobo

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
1,360
Likes
2,851
Location
any germ
If it were me, I'd spend a similar budget on a good and simple stereo set-up rather than surround gear - I think you'll get better sound for the same money.
I have a good stereo setup. I added a third of the same speaker as center + small surrounds afterwards just out of curiosity.
 

tifune

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
1,085
Likes
767
@DJBonoBobo how's your setup coming along? Some furniture changes have me considering surrounds above ear level as per your original Q, so as not to irritate people on the ends of our couch. I'm also searching for CBT that have any chance whatsoever of getting a passing WAF score. I swear step 1 of building line arrays is "imagine the ugliest speaker possible, perhaps something that looks like it came from the last level of Doom".
 
OP
DJBonoBobo

DJBonoBobo

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
1,360
Likes
2,851
Location
any germ
@DJBonoBobo how's your setup coming along? Some furniture changes have me considering surrounds above ear level as per your original Q, so as not to irritate people on the ends of our couch. I'm also searching for CBT that have any chance whatsoever of getting a passing WAF score. I swear step 1 of building line arrays is "imagine the ugliest speaker possible, perhaps something that looks like it came from the last level of Doom".
I have installed the KH80 on the wall around 35cm above ear level. But in my situation i would not do it again. They feel too high/not right, not immersive. If i could start over i would place them at ear level or only a little bit higher.
Listening distance is around 150cm. They are a bit too much in the back though, angle is around 125 degree, which is more than it should be. YMMV.

For me the whole surround-thing has not worked well. I almost never use it. Stereo sounds better in most cases. I tried upmixing stuff and also playing a few surround-mixes i had. But nothing sounded really good. I planned on listening to a lot more surround music, but i am very disappointed/frustrated it is almost impossible to listen to this in a legal way, if you don´t want to buy physical discs and also don´t own an AVR (DRM shall burn in hell).
I configured the fronts and the surrounds both with the MA1 system, but of course as 2 stereo setups. Maybe they don´t fit. I also tried Dirac live, but that gave me a nasty lag/delay. So, i probably try again as soon as the MA1 supports surrounds systems. Maybe i also will give Dirac another shot some day.

I don't know what of my experience is translatable to others. Maybe my installation is just too bad or has too many compromises.

PS: Just for the sake of completeness, I don't know if I had already written it in this thread: The center didn't work either, I sold it. Phantom center was better in all cases I tested.
 
Top Bottom