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Surround sound processors

stunta

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I am planning to switch from a home theater receiver to a surround sound processor because I have enough amps to drive my passive speakers and I may switch to active speakers in the near future. I only need 5.1 with lossless codecs. Would prefer XLR outputs.

Any suggestions for a reasonably priced ($1000 or so) processor that measures well and doesn't have too many bells and whistles?

Thanks!
 

Blumlein 88

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Your best bet is to purchase second hand processors. There are few below $1000 new. One of them is the Emotiva UMC200.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurement-of-emotiva-umc200-pre-pro.3504/
I was not happy with the performance. I use powered speakers for the surrounds which can use a clean 3.2 volt signal for peaks. The Emotiva isn't clean beyond 2.2 volts.

EDIT: I forgot the UMC200 has been replaced with the MC-700 which is $699 new. I note that like the UMC200 Emotiva publishes zero audio specifications for the MC-700. None. Which would make me suspect its performance. Emotiva usually lists some specs for most of their other gear.

I ended up purchasing a Marantz pre/pro AVR7701 from Sal second hand. I think it was about $1500 when new some 5 or 6 years ago.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tz-avr-7701-dac-measurements.3485/#post-84165

There are the Outlaw processors worth a look though I've never used one.

If the Emotiva meets your needs, I still have it and need to sell it. Read the thread above however. If you don't need more than 2.2 volts output, and use HDMI inputs it isn't bad. It is rather simple, and does have a version of room EQ. The best feature is the ability to set multiple Parametric EQ's for smoothing out the low end response or other large response anomalies in your room.
 
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stunta

stunta

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Thanks. Not a fan of Emotiva. I have sold/returned everything I've had from them. I'll keep an eye out for the Marantz.

Integra used units seem to reasonably priced as well. My current receiver is an Integra and it has served me very well over the years.

I forgot to mention, I will be getting a 4K HDR TV. Do I need HDMI 2.0? A quick search reveals that 1.4 is "enough" for 24 fps. I haven't kept track of anything on the video scene (current TV is a 1080p plasma that is a nice room heater and white noise maker)
 

Blumlein 88

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Thanks. Not a fan of Emotiva. I have sold/returned everything I've had from them. I'll keep an eye out for the Marantz.

Integra used units seem to reasonably priced as well. My current receiver is an Integra and it has served me very well over the years.

I forgot to mention, I will be getting a 4K HDR TV. Do I need HDMI 2.0? A quick search reveals that 1.4 is "enough" for 24 fps. I haven't kept track of anything on the video scene (current TV is a 1080p plasma that is a nice room heater and white noise maker)

Were I still looking I would consider Yamaha and Onkyo Integra units, but I've got the Marantz which I've now measured so I know it is pretty good. The handling of video by the Marantz is excellent as well.

And you will need HDMI 2.0 for 4K HDR.
 

March Audio

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Remember Onkyo and integra units are the same., just different labels :)
My Onkyo does get worryingly (from a long term reliability pov) hot, but sounds fine.

Oh, I will relate a recent experience regarding 4k. We have a Samsung uhd TV about 3 to 4 years old. As the BBC were streaming the football (soccer to the heathens out there) world cup and Wimbledon in 4k hdr, I bought a Roku dongle yo take advantage of these iPlayer streams. Disappointed that my TV only supported HDCP 2 and not the required 2.2. And as such the Roku only allowed 1080 HD.

It still looked fantastic though. The streamed BBC h265 produced better pictures than Oz HDTV broadcast.
 
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stunta

stunta

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And you will need HDMI 2.0 for 4K HDR.

If the source can do 4K HDR and the TV supports it, can processors pass through the video signal as is and only process the audio? If this is the case, does the HDMI version really matter?
 

Blumlein 88

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If the source can do 4K HDR and the TV supports it, can processors pass through the video signal as is and only process the audio? If this is the case, does the HDMI version really matter?

That probably depends upon the TV. I'm assuming something like your 4k TV is getting an off the air or cable 4k video and you let it spit out the audio for use by a surround processor. In such a case I suppose the HDMI might not matter for the video portion. You'll run into issues however with some TVs where you have to put out the resolution the TV display is using over HDMI. You couldn't with some brands watch 4k, let the HDMI out happen at 2k which goes to your surround processor. I ran into this problem with my brother's TV he purchased last year.

Another gotcha is you need HDMI 2.0 for 4 k signals. You need HDCP 2.2 which is a copy protection to allow 4k through out your system. There was a small gap of a year or so where you have the former, but not the latter. I think it was around 2013-14. Maybe someone with more video experience can tell us more. The Marantz I use does not have HDCP 2.2, but as I don't have 4k displays it hasn't mattered. It is possible some devices have firmware upgrades to add it to units without it originally.
 

March Audio

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Yeah it still is a bit of a minefield. My Samsung happily plays Netflix UHD, it does have BBC iPlayer, both internal apps, but as it's a few years old they no longer release firmware software updates for it. It needs an update to support iPlayer UHD, hence my purchase of the Roku dongle.

To be honest though, the TV at 55" is too small to really take advantage of the UHD content.
 
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stunta

stunta

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In my case, the set up would be Roku (streaming device with 4K capability) to processor to TV. I will likely have other devices connected - like a 2 channel DAC which will have to also be pass-through for audio. A blu-ray player. I also have a turntable for spinning vinyl.

If I have the Roku directly connected to the TV, most TV units only have optical out which I believe cannot carry lossless codecs like Dolby True HD.
 

astr0b0y

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You'll pay more for a processor over a receiver, probably due to them being less sort after by the masses and considered 'high-end' because separates are always better etc.
You may find a broader range of options of you include receivers with pre-outs for all surround channels that it supports.
 

Blumlein 88

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In my case, the set up would be Roku (streaming device with 4K capability) to processor to TV. I will likely have other devices connected - like a 2 channel DAC which will have to also be pass-through for audio. A blu-ray player. I also have a turntable for spinning vinyl.

If I have the Roku directly connected to the TV, most TV units only have optical out which I believe cannot carry lossless codecs like Dolby True HD.
Yes, that is the best arrangement because your processor will function as a video and audio switching center. In order for that to work all devices will have to be HDCP 2.2 compliant or none of it will work. The Roku and TV will be no problem. You'll have to make sure the processor is. Most after mid-2015 are. You should be able to find one second hand for below $1000 which is recent enough to be HDCP 2.2 then you'll be set.
 
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stunta

stunta

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stunta

stunta

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You'll pay more for a processor over a receiver, probably due to them being less sort after by the masses and considered 'high-end' because separates are always better etc.
You may find a broader range of options of you include receivers with pre-outs for all surround channels that it supports.

Receivers generally don't have XLR pre-outs and I was hoping to find a smaller form factor processor but most manufacturers have very large chassis probably because they share the same chassis with their receivers. The outlaw model looks good and doesn't include stupid stuff like s-video (I feel old just writing this) inputs.
 

pierre

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Denon has this D700 for 1k$. You can find the previous D500 (5.1) used for 400$. I have no idea if they are good or not.
 

XpanD

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I'm going down a similar path, though with the added complications of wanting to step up to HDMI 2.1 at some point and wanting proper room correction on-board.

So far I've only found one product that seems to nail this: The NAD T758 v3, which supports expansion to future formats via special modules, and has Dirac built in (with three slots!). No balanced outputs, which I was originally dead-set on, but from the testing I've done so far (on a Yamaha P3500S pro amp) a simple RCA > XLR cable looks like it will work (although at a lower signal level).

It's a receiver, but it's honestly rated and has pre-outs for a 7.1.4 setup, with amps for a 7.1 or 5.1.2. It's a bit more expensive than the target price (at ~$1300), but I have yet to see anything else quite so flexible, and it has a good rep for overall quality (if you can get one with a newer expansion board -- seems to be largely resolved now, but worth reading up on).
 

svart-hvitt

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I know the OP asked for moderately priced converters, so this is for those who want to spend bigger dollars in a digital chain to maximize fidelity of the source material.

There are two products from Arvus that seem to do what the quality oriented may seek, i.e. outputting native hi-res up to 24/192 from HDMi for surround purposes:

http://www.arvus.io/hdmi-2a.html

http://www.arvus.io/h2-udma.html

The last link is a more elaborate option with all the new formats. These are more expensive, but not audiophile expensive style.
 

andrew

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I've been looking for a similar solution - XLR pre-outs, HDMI switching with 4k HDR output and excellent bass management / room correction. It seems hard to meet with the need for XLR pre-outs pushing one to the top of the line Pre-Pro units which have significant price premium. One option looks to be a AVR with Jenson IsoMax P1-2RX to convert to balanced but this does add a box.

The other issue is the bass management and room correction which, surprisingly, seemed less well sorted than I thought would be the case. It'd be good to get expert input on the various algorithms / implementations but I'm tending towards Dirac on NAD (I've had good experience with mini-DSP DDRC-22D) or ARC (which seems to get a good wrap). It'd be good to get the experts opinion at the different algorithms / implementations
 

Bjorn

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I wasn't able to find a surround processor that had very low distortion in an ok price range. I ended up with a HTPC, a Lynx Two-B sound card, and Jriver Media Center. Probably not a solution for everyone but the sound quality is tough to beat.
 
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stunta

stunta

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Given my good experience with Integra, I ended up getting the Integra DRC-R1.1 (their newest model) for $1600 (retail is $2500). It is a refurb unit from accessories4less (they are authorized refurb sellers for Integra). Most of the XLR outputs are not working and accessories4less is out of stock on this model, so I have sent it in for repair. After several hours spent troubleshooting, talking to tech support, repacking and shipping, I am starting to regret this purchase. Brand new HT setup with a projector and now I am without a pre-pro for 3-4 weeks.

I suppose there is some value in paying the premium and buying expensive gear from local dealers.
 
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