Suggestions for three-way crossover filters?

[DanielT]

For a pair of DIY three-wave speakers I was thinking of building this autumn.Crossover points, 300 Hz and 2500 Hz. At least 24 dB HP-LP filter..

I have several amplifiers so it is no problem to let different amps take care of the bass, midrange and tweeter respectively.

Preferably in the digital world as far as possible. Active crossover is a solution and preferably not passive crossover. However, I can imagine combinations of the mentioned crossover solutions.

Signal, I use Android or my laptop with Win 10. Streaming Spotify (or if I will switch to Qobuz).

When proposing miniDSP, please if there are tests on its performance when it comes to using it with crossover functionality. It would be interesting to read about.

 

[MCH]

If i was to do something like that, i would totally go for raspberry pi with camilladsp to the new topping dm7. Total cost ca 700 eur. and 2 unused channels if one day you want to add subs.
But:
I am not sure anyone has confirmed yet the DM7 works well in such a system.
You will need all your amps balanced.

 

[DanielT]

Thanks for suggestions! I will unfortunately put in a restriction. Camilladsp isn't that very DIY hard coding? Unfortunately, data programming is definitely not my thing.

I understand that the system with several amplifiers must be synchronized and in balance with each other. I have three power amps and a preamp, but then I need to be able to plug all of these together in a sensible way.I don't really understand this. Trying to see how I can get it together but hm...

I understand that the system with several amplifiers must be synchronized and in balance with each other.I have three power amps and a preamp, but then I need to be able to plug all of these together in a sensible way...hm...

In any case I have these drivers go play with:

Bass:

Experiences of and / or measurements Peerless SLS series?

Seems to be speaker element with good performance - price ratio.:) You who have used these speaker elements, what are your experiences? Are there any distortion measurements on any of the elements in the SLS series? I tried to find some but I did not find any.

audiosciencereview.com

Maybe if I buy two more so it's double 10 inches in each box.

Midrange:

SB Acoustics SB15NBAC30-4 | HiFiCompass

The THD measurements at distance of 20 mm and voltage levels from 4 to 5.6 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (4th order Butterworth type, 20 Hz cutoff, HPF4-20). The THD measurements at distance of 315 mm and voltage levels from 2 to 4 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter...

hificompass.com

Tweeter:

SB Acoustics SB26ADC-C000-4 | HiFiCompass

The THD measurements at distance of 315 mm and voltage levels 2.83 - 8 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd order Buttreworth type, 500 Hz cutoff, HPF2-500). The THD measurements at distance of 315 mm and voltage level 11.2 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd...

hificompass.com

Edit:
Incidentally, the midrange and tweeter are used in this DIY:

Revel M105 Copy DIY build

After seeing the success of Directiva, But knowing the price, I wanted a nice small pair of passive bookshelf speakers for use in the second living room. I didn't need massive SPLs (if you need more SPLs the Directiva is much better - however that build is DSP XO + Multi Channel amplified). The...

audiosciencereview.com

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[DVDdoug]

If it was me I'd just but a (analog) crossover. Plug it in, twist a few knobs, and you're done! Or buy some plate amplifiers or "amplifier modules" and build a full-active speaker. (But that would probably mean building a DIY crossover.)

...I'd recommend a capacitor on the tweeter, and maybe the midrange too, to block low frequencies when something "goes wrong" or in case something is accidently wired-wrong. (That can be chosen to "cross over" at a lower frequency so it doesn't interfere with the actual crossover.)

Active crossover is a solution and preferably not passive crossover.

If you are going to bi-amp or tri-amp, active has a few advantages.


P.S.
A lot of pro amps have DSP "crossovers" (filters) built-in and that simplifies things a lot. But you'd have to buy 3 new amps, and most of these amps have (noisy) cooling fans.

 

[MCH]

Thanks for suggestions! I will unfortunately put in a restriction. Camilladsp isn't that very DIY hard coding? Unfortunately, data programming is definitely not my thing.

No need to know any programming. Have a look here:

RPi + CamillaDSP Tutorial

As of May 22, 2024, this tutorial has been migrated to GitHub to allow for better revision management and a more universal location, please see link below. https://github.com/mdsimon2/RPi-CamillaDSP In general the GitHub tutorial is the same as previous ASR tutorial but now covers the RPi5...

audiosciencereview.com

I understand that the system with several amplifiers must be synchronized and in balance with each other. I have three power amps and a preamp, but then I need to be able to plug all of these together in a sensible way.I don't really understand this. Trying to see how I can get it together but hm...

That's the beauty of the topping DM7: it is a multichannel dac AND a preamp. You just need to plug your power amps to it, adjust the different gains in camilladsp and the DM7 gives you master volume control with volume knob and remote control.... a dream for your project IMHO.

 

[Doodski]

@DanielT for max fun and effect an active DSP crossover with 3 stereo amps is more than enough to keep you occupied for awhile.
This one is said to hiss a bit>

miniDSP 2x4 HD

MiniDSP 2x4 HD, a USB DAC+DSP in a low cost package powered by a powerful Sharc 400MHz floating point DSP. The upgraded on-board 400 MHz Analog Devices SHARC processor also ena-bles substantial processing upgrades previously available only on more ex-pensive platforms, such as 96 kHz internal...

www.minidsp.com

This is a option.>

miniDSP Flex

Pocket size processor with flexible Input/Output configuration, Audiophile converters, 400MHz Sharc DSP processor, BT connectivity, DSP toolbox for subwoofer and multiway crossover, Dirac Live optional upgrade

www.minidsp.com

 

[MCH]

@DanielT for max fun and effect an active DSP crossover with 3 stereo amps is more than enough to keep you occupied for awhile.
This one is said to hiss a bit>

miniDSP 2x4 HD

MiniDSP 2x4 HD, a USB DAC+DSP in a low cost package powered by a powerful Sharc 400MHz floating point DSP. The upgraded on-board 400 MHz Analog Devices SHARC processor also ena-bles substantial processing upgrades previously available only on more ex-pensive platforms, such as 96 kHz internal...

www.minidsp.com

This is a option.>

miniDSP Flex

Pocket size processor with flexible Input/Output configuration, Audiophile converters, 400MHz Sharc DSP processor, BT connectivity, DSP toolbox for subwoofer and multiway crossover, Dirac Live optional upgrade

www.minidsp.com

But he would need two of them (?) and i am not sure if it would be even possible.... he needs 6 channels

 

[voodooless]

Get a second hand DCX2496. Or, you already have a MiniDSP, get another one.

CamilaDSP has a web interface nowadays, so is much more accessible.

 

[Doodski]

But he would need two of them and i am not sure if it would be even possible.... he needs 6 channels

O rightO... 3-way. Better have a coffee and wake up here!

 

[Doodski]

How about the Octo Research dac8 PRO 8-channel D/A converter.

 

[voodooless]

O rightO... 3-way. Better have a coffee and wake up here!

Hmm, in the other thread the suggestion was to drink 6 pints of beer… probably good to try both then…

 

[Doodski]

Hmm, in the other thread the suggestion was to drink 6 pints of beer… probably good to try both then…

Coffee, Sambuca and hash...

 

[DanielT]

No need to know any programming. Have a look here:

RPi + CamillaDSP Tutorial

As of May 22, 2024, this tutorial has been migrated to GitHub to allow for better revision management and a more universal location, please see link below. https://github.com/mdsimon2/RPi-CamillaDSP In general the GitHub tutorial is the same as previous ASR tutorial but now covers the RPi5...

audiosciencereview.com

That's the beauty of the topping DM7: it is a multichannel dac AND a preamp. You just need to plug your power amps to it, adjust the different gains in camilladsp and the DM7 gives you master volume control with volume knob and remote control.... a dream for your project IMHO.

Get a second hand DCX2496. Or, you already have a MiniDSP, get another one.

CamilaDSP has a web interface nowadays, so is much more accessible.

...much more accessible...An absolute requirement if I'm even going to consider Camilla.

MarcosCh, you say No need to know any programming..but this scares me, although maybe it's not relevant now? Post #3 in the Camiladsp thread. Maybe not at the hard coding level directly but not easy for a non-computer literate it doesn't seem to be.

RPi + CamillaDSP Tutorial

As of May 22, 2024, this tutorial has been migrated to GitHub to allow for better revision management and a more universal location, please see link below. https://github.com/mdsimon2/RPi-CamillaDSP In general the GitHub tutorial is the same as previous ASR tutorial but now covers the RPi5...

audiosciencereview.com

Voodooless , yep I have a 2x4 miniDSP but not 2x4 miniDSP HD. I am wondering about the performance of the miniDSP (not the HD version)?

I actually also have a two-way active crossover that I got cheap, which I ..well thought it might be good to have, like. Like that. Don't really know my thinking when I bought it to be honest.This:
LD X-223

LD Systems X 223

Active Crossover Stereo 2-way/Mono 3-way, Frequency range: 20 - 20,000 Hz, Dynamics: 106 dB, 2x High gain, 2x High pass: 40 Hz, 2x Input gain, 2x Low gain, 2x Switch Freq. x1 / x10, 2x X-Over Freq. Low/High, 2x X-Over Low/Mid, 4x Inv. Switch, LF...

www.thomann.de

This can develop into a horror story. Three power amps plus a pre amp, plus an active crossover plus a miniDSP. It just smells like grounding and noise problems a long way. I'm not going to "paint the devil on the wall", but still.

Pre amp out to...? Active two-way filter then to miniDSP and then to power amps or vice versa miniDSP split then Actic crossover and split that signal? But I want the possibility to EQ the entire register. So there is little to think about.Incidentally, I think that miniDSP, (not miniDSP HD), is quite limited in terms of time delay settings. Which, incidentally, only applies to two channels. It is a three-way speaker.

Note. I'm just thinking out loud now. This is the fun part, he he. To think about solutions.

 

[voodooless]

I have a 2x4 miniDSP but not 2x4 miniDSP HD. I am wondering about the performance of the miniDSP (not the HD version)?

Well, you’d know, you have it

 

[RickS]

Minidsp is fine. You can do with (2) minidsp 2x4s with the right plug-in...

Before you spend anything, would model it all in VituixCAD. It has the filters for the minidsp and other active crossovers. If you do the protective cap on the tweeters, hiss will be less likely to be an issue. IMO, once you start doing the cap, might do the whole tweeter passively. Ofc, depends a lot on the tweeter.

 

[ppataki]

If i was to do something like that, i would totally go for raspberry pi with camilladsp to the new topping dm7. Total cost ca 700 eur. and 2 unused channels if one day you want to add subs.
But:
I am not sure anyone has confirmed yet the DM7 works well in such a system.
You will need all your amps balanced.

I agree with the Topping DM7, I have that too, totally love it!

Re. crossover I would use Jriver's DSP engine and if you need any exotic solutions you can use additional VST plugins too: DDMF Metaplugin to be able to manage the channels, and tons of EQ plugins to choose from: Acon, CraveEQ, Izotope, Waves......
You can use minimum phase crossover, linear phase crossover and mixed phase crossover with these babies

 

[mdsimon2]

MarcosCh, you say No need to know any programming..but this scares me, although maybe it's not relevant now? Post #3 in the Camiladsp thread. Maybe not at the hard coding level directly but not easy for a non-computer literate it doesn't seem to be.

Of course I need to shill my own solution , if you can copy / paste and follow instructions you can install CamillaDSP on a RPi4. There is nothing resembling programming because I have done all of the hard work for you. I have not encountered anyone that has been unable to successfully install it. A DAC with remote volume control like the Okto dac8 pro or Topping DM7 eliminates tons of complexity as well, no need to worry about displays or IR receivers.

Once you have it installed usability is just as good as miniDSP, if not better as you can configure it from any phone / computer connected to the same network.

I was a miniDSP user for many years but these days it is so hard to beat CamillaDSP and a multichannel DAC if you need more than 4 output channels. Unfortunately all of the minidSP 4+ channel multichannel offerings with analog outputs are bit noisy (4x10HD, OpenDRC-DA8, DDRC-88A) although the previously mentioned hybrid solution of a miniDSP Flex + passive crossover on the mid / tweeter is a decent option.

Michael

 

[dualazmak]

Hello OP @DanieIT

Just for your reference, my multichannel multi-driver (multi-way) multi-amplifier fully active L&R stereo audio project with OKTO DAC8PRO and software DSP (XO/EQ) "EKIO" (very nice and simple GUI) would be of your interest.

You would please find details of my latest system setup here.

I prepared hyperlink index here and here for my project thread.

"EKIO" on Windows PC enables very much flexible (even on-the-fly) GUI XO/EQ settings and also delay (time alignment) tuning in 0.1 msec precision which really "matters" for the amazing total sound quality including the disappearance of SPs, as shared here.

"EKIO" can work as system-wide one-stop XO/EQ center (unlimited numbers of input/output channels) receiving audio signals from JRiver MC, Roon, Adobe Audition, AudaCity, internet browsers, etc. through ASIO4ALL (free) and VB Audio Virtual Cable (free).

If you would be seriously interested, I will be more than happy sharing with you the test tone signals I prepared for precision measurements/adjustments of time alignments as well as for measurements of SP transient characteristics.

I use OKTO DAC8PRO in my multichannel project, but now you can do exactly the same with TOPPING DM7, I believe.

 

[dualazmak]

The picture really makes me hungry... Approaching to lunch time here in Japan!

(Yes, I know "hash" refers to two or more different things...)

 

[MAB]

I have a MiniDSP 4x10HD, an SHD, and an OpenDRC kit, all used as active crossovers.

The OpenDRC was a bit glitchy. Like sometimes the volume would operate backwards and scare me, but I never blew a driver. I wish it had higher output, which is a blessing if you don't want to blow speakers I guess! It is discontinued, and I no longer use it.

I use the 4x10 HD in an active three-way system that I have tinkered with for the past ~20 years. The frequencies are different than you are thinking of exploring, but of course that is flexible. I feel that it is a pretty good platform to explore active 2- through 4-way speaker development. I have used a variety of slopes and crossover points, shelves, notches, and delays. The unit is pretty glitch-free. I wish it had higher output. USB is for configuring the unit, not for data. It has very little hiss with an 89dB sensitivity tweeter. My setup is essentially similar to @dualazmak, but different approach with less performance I think. And mine is 3-way stereo instead of 4-way stereo. But guessing mine plays louder, so I got that!

I use the SHD as the subwoofer crossover in a system with a pair of Genelec studio monitors with four subwoofers. I have used the internal Dirac, as well as GLM. It is limited to 2-way stereo crossover, but it is easy and really flexible with all the notches, shelves, and filters you could want. I wish it had higher output. It has almost no hiss as implemented. It sounds great. It was reviewed here too https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sp-shd-review-updated-dsp-dac-streamer.18681/ The SHD also has an A/D converter, so you can hook up random analog sources.

These gear can also make use of FIR filters for room and speaker correction. MiniDSP has some useful documentation on system integration, etc. Also, deercreekaudio has useful system integration info and participates in ASR.

Deer Creek Audio

deercreekaudio.com

Hope this helps. Sounds like you will have fun.