Suggestions for (or does it make sense to upgrade) my amp?

[brunobm]

Currently using a Topping DX3 Pro+ to power my Focal Clear MGs. No complaints honestly.

But I'm going to California next month, and given that it's prohibitive to get any audio equipment in my country, it's an opportunity to go looking for new stuff. In terms of amp, I thought of upgrading to something balanced. Headphones .com customer service suggested the iFi Zen Can + Dac v2 stack. I'm thinking whether I shouldn't take the opportunity to go made in USA with something form Schiit or JDS. But if I'm not gonna notice anything from the switch, not sure if it's worth it as the DX3 Pro+ currently has what I need.

One curve ball to throw at you all if I may - I'm considering adding either an Ananda or an HD6XX (or HD600) to the collection. I tried the former and really liked the sound signature, super different from my Clear MG. And this past weekend I tried an HD600 and an HD650 and really like how natural they sound. I like the 600 a little better but given there's the Drop HD6XX in the US for almost half the price, it seems like a no brainer. So the idea is that if I do go for one of these, whatever amp I have has to be well prepared.

Thanks!

 

[IAtaman]

Depends on what you mean by make sense. From a purely functional point of view, DX3 Pro+ can drive any of the headphones you mentioned easily and you will not need another DAC/AMP to be able to enjoy them. On the other side if you want to buy a JDS or Schiit product, doing it while you are in the US also make sense as shipping costs almost as much as the device itself depending on where you live..

 

[brunobm]

I meant from a functional point of view. In terms of features, the DX3 Pro+ has what I need. If there's no noticeable change to sound, then to me it would not make sense to switch.

I've heard from reading that all of these headphones I mentioned scale well, so I'm not sure changing to these other amps mean I'll benefit from said scale.. Still sorta confusing how this scaling thing happens. I've read about having enough power to satisfactorily drive all frequencies given there's impedance oscillation, but I really don't know how to objectively tell if the DX3 Pro+ is already allowing me to do this with enough headroom

 

[IAtaman]

I am not sure what scales well means for a headphone.

Headphones have a mominal impedance that is written on their box, but in reality their impedence changes with frequency. There is not a single formula for this however. if you want to understand how a specific headphone behaves, you will need to look up their Impedance / Frequency graphs. I am not so sure though if this is something you should be worried about when buying a headphone amp. It is not like a headphone that requires 10mW power for 1kHz nominal impedance will need 1000mW for a certain frequency. More about this later.

What you should be doing if you are worried about whether your headphone amp has eneough power to drive your headphones is:
- Look up the specs of your gear. DX3 Pro+ specs are 1800mW into 32ohm and 250mW into 300ohm.
- Look up the specs of the headphones under question and find out what is their nominal impedance and sensitivity. Be careful as sensitivity can be quoted as a function of Voltage or Power (dbSPL/V or dbSPL/mW) , which makes a difference.
- Use a tool to calculate the power needed to drive these headphones to very high levels and see if your amp meets those specs. Google (or Bing) calculate headphone power requirements and pick one from the list. Again, be careful about the unit (V or mW) selection.
- If your HPA has enough power to reach 115db SLP you are golden. Normal listening levels will be much lower than that but you will have enough headroom for the most demanding and most high dynamic range tracks as well if you check for 115 dbSPL. In 0.01% of the case, you might be listening to a 24bit track with massive dynamic range, and for a fraction of a second in that track, the orchestra might be playing at 120db SPL. If you are worried about that sort of thing, look that up as well.

Here is a quick table for the gears in question. For Ananda and Clear, DX3 Pro+ is overkill. For HD600 it is perfectly fine as well. You will see that at 120db SPL HD600's power requirements are over the specs of your HPA. If that edge case worries you and a few hunderd dollars is not a big deal for you, go and get a more powerful device. If you don't worry about that, it is also perfectly fine - you are well set for a fun listening session in either case.

Headphone	Nominal Impedance (ohm)	Sensitivity (SPL/mW or V)	Power at 115db SPL (mW)	Power at 120db SPL (mW)
Focal Clear MG	55	104 db/mW	12.5mW	40mW
Hifiman Ananda	27	103 db/mW	15.5mW	50mW
HD600	300	97 dbSPL/V	210mW	660mW

On the topic of changing impedance with frequency, here is a graph for HD650 I found online. As you can see nominal specs are for 1KHz and impedance changes with frequency. Probably so does the SPL so you might be tempted to try and find a SPL over Frequency graph to check whether you got enough power across all audible range for all variations of the headphone impedance and sensitivity. If you are that pedantic, you will also need to get a graph of your HPA's output power at the THD% level of your choosing for worst case phase as well, but I really don't think any of that is not necessary from a practical point of view, unless you want to prove someone wrong on the internet so very badly that you are willing to go the distance

 

[Dunring]

I just had a DX3Pro+ last week on the Ananda and HD6XX and it powered them great. There's no audible upgrade as far as power goes.

 

[LTig]

I agree with @Dunring and @IAtaman. Your amp has enough power to destroy your hearing. If you want to invest money and the HD6xx is too cheap have a listen to the HD800S. Maybe its outstanding soundstage is something you'd think is worth to invest in.

 

[oleg87]

I think the DX3 is basically the last step you need to make before something like an RME ADI-2 which actually offers some meaningful features over just more power you’re probably not going to use. Sure, use balanced if its there already, but I see vanishingly little reason to shell out hundreds of bucks just for that unless you happen to have one of the few headphones the DX3 might struggle driving to unpleasantly loud levels.

 

[brunobm]

I am not sure what scales well means for a headphone.

Headphones have a mominal impedance that is written on their box, but in reality their impedence changes with frequency. There is not a single formula for this however. if you want to understand how a specific headphone behaves, you will need to look up their Impedance / Frequency graphs. I am not so sure though if this is something you should be worried about when buying a headphone amp. It is not like a headphone that requires 10mW power for 1kHz nominal impedance will need 1000mW for a certain frequency. More about this later.

What you should be doing if you are worried about whether your headphone amp has eneough power to drive your headphones is:
- Look up the specs of your gear. DX3 Pro+ specs are 1800mW into 32ohm and 250mW into 300ohm.
- Look up the specs of the headphones under question and find out what is their nominal impedance and sensitivity. Be careful as sensitivity can be quoted as a function of Voltage or Power (dbSPL/V or dbSPL/mW) , which makes a difference.
- Use a tool to calculate the power needed to drive these headphones to very high levels and see if your amp meets those specs. Google (or Bing) calculate headphone power requirements and pick one from the list. Again, be careful about the unit (V or mW) selection.
- If your HPA has enough power to reach 115db SLP you are golden. Normal listening levels will be much lower than that but you will have enough headroom for the most demanding and most high dynamic range tracks as well if you check for 115 dbSPL. In 0.01% of the case, you might be listening to a 24bit track with massive dynamic range, and for a fraction of a second in that track, the orchestra might be playing at 120db SPL. If you are worried about that sort of thing, look that up as well.

Here is a quick table for the gears in question. For Ananda and Clear, DX3 Pro+ is overkill. For HD600 it is perfectly fine as well. You will see that at 120db SPL HD600's power requirements are over the specs of your HPA. If that edge case worries you and a few hunderd dollars is not a big deal for you, go and get a more powerful device. If you don't worry about that, it is also perfectly fine - you are well set for a fun listening session in either case.

Headphone	Nominal Impedance (ohm)	Sensitivity (SPL/mW or V)	Power at 115db SPL (mW)	Power at 120db SPL (mW)
Focal Clear MG	55	104 db/mW	12.5mW	40mW
Hifiman Ananda	27	103 db/mW	15.5mW	50mW
HD600	300	97 dbSPL/V	210mW	660mW

On the topic of changing impedance with frequency, here is a graph for HD650 I found online. As you can see nominal specs are for 1KHz and impedance changes with frequency. Probably so does the SPL so you might be tempted to try and find a SPL over Frequency graph to check whether you got enough power across all audible range for all variations of the headphone impedance and sensitivity. If you are that pedantic, you will also need to get a graph of your HPA's output power at the THD% level of your choosing for worst case phase as well, but I really don't think any of that is not necessary from a practical point of view, unless you want to prove someone wrong on the internet so very badly that you are willing to go the distance
View attachment 275637

Wow thanks for all the helpful replies, and special thanks to this very educative post @IAtaman!

I had been reading into this stuff and my understanding from "scaling" was that it's related to the amp adequately supporting the headphone at its variable impedance throughout the frequency range.. I did find a recent video from Golden with this 115dB rule of thumb, but thought it was an approximation. What I get out of your post is that this is good for 99.99% of the cases (and I'm pretty sure that my ears are not trained for that 0.01%).

Little backstory on what I'm looking for and why:

• I'm going to the US for the first time in several years, and there's no better place to find extensive portfolio of gear for the cheapest price. Add to that that it's prohibitive to import anything into my country with all of the customs duties.
  • Exception to this rule are Chinese products from Aliexpress, which you can often get away with importing without being taxed. Thus why I ended up with the DX3 Pro+.
• I'm wondering if I should take advantage of such trip to upgrade something in my setup. But I don't need to. I just have some cash I saved up for this just in case.
• I already have a pretty darn good HP in the Clear MG, but I'm uncomfortable with two things regarding it:
  • I think it's above a reasonable threshold of incremental gains for me. I have a hypothesis that the HD6XX will bring me the same enjoyment at a fraction of the cost, and if I prove this then I'd sell the Clear MG. Only reason I got it in the first place honestly is that I paid relatively cheap for one in used mint condition.
  • I'm scared to sh*t that the driver on such an expensive phone will fail and from what I read I'm SOL if it does, as customer service is total cr*p.
• If I do go the route of an HD600 series phone, I've read/watched multiple reviews especially from Headphones.com that say it scales like mad, and thus thought the DX3 Pro+ as an entry level DAC/Amp wouldn't extract the maximum from it. Seems like it's audiophile/commercial BS.

I agree with @Dunring and @IAtaman. Your amp has enough power to destroy your hearing. If you want to invest money and the HD6xx is too cheap have a listen to the HD800S. Maybe its outstanding soundstage is something you'd think is worth to invest in.

Thought about selling the Clear MG due to the driver risk, and getting an HD800S locally with warranty and all. I listened to it at the local Sennheiser store and although I really do appreciate the soundstage, it just doesn't have enough bass to be my only headphone. Plus I really don't think the price being 8x what an HD6XX costs makes sense.

 

[Snoopy]

I would probably get a Jotunheim 2 for 399 USD. Still a very nice amp.

 

[Palladium]

I just had a DX3Pro+ last week on the Ananda and HD6XX and it powered them great. There's no audible upgrade as far as power goes.

DX3 Pro+ at 6dB low gain option and -20dB dBFS digital was driving my Moondrop Chu to ear scorching levels of SPL.

 

[Astoneroad]

Own & love DX3 Pro+, drives my DCA Closed X (12.5 ohm) to louder than safe levels. What a bargain at $200!

 

[brunobm]

Update: scored myself an HD6XX on a sale. There are two things I thought of doing:
1. Pair it with a Little Dot Mk II amp to get a totally different sound, as this combo is super hyped up I can only assume it works well. Actually I just opened a thread about the combo because I have zero experience with tubes and I don't know if I should replace the original tubes off the bat...
2. I'll try to use the HD6XX with the DX3 Pro+ as well to see if I get comparable enjoyment versus my Clear MG. I certainly don't expect it to match the Focal, but if I decide it's good enough then there's no reason to hold onto something that's so much more expensive and prone to driver clipping..!

 

[majingotan]

Update: scored myself an HD6XX on a sale. There are two things I thought of doing:
1. Pair it with a Little Dot Mk II amp to get a totally different sound, as this combo is super hyped up I can only assume it works well. Actually I just opened a thread about the combo because I have zero experience with tubes and I don't know if I should replace the original tubes off the bat...
2. I'll try to use the HD6XX with the DX3 Pro+ as well to see if I get comparable enjoyment versus my Clear MG. I certainly don't expect it to match the Focal, but if I decide it's good enough then there's no reason to hold onto something that's so much more expensive and prone to driver clipping..!

Why not visit Schiitr? Last time I went there, they have HD6XX as their demo headphones and like the extra fullness in the bass from the Valhalla 2 amp (OTL output impedance increases 6XX's bass FR presence). It should have a similar effect to your Clear MG which you may like or not so make sure to bring your Clear MG when your there