Suggestions for Intel Motherboard?

[amirm]

OK, I will send you a private message.

 

[mkawa]

 

[Gnasherrr]

why intel when amd is the market leader now

 

[thomasjast]

why intel when amd is the market leader now

Why question marks when punctuation is the leader now?

Same idea.

 

[Category 5]

I know it's from out of left field, but for variety and audio work these are cheap as heck right now and you can put 16GB and 2 2.5" SSD/HDD in them easily. You could then have OSX and Windows 10 (boot camp), and firewire support as well.

Not sure how well the FW works under boot camp but...

I know it's nothing close to what you're after, but would be a great tool consodering what you would be using it for, and maybe cheaper than a whole new PC.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Apple...=32377821377909ef738f7fd94d7197a1983ab55913a3

 

[amirm]

I know it's from out of left field, but for variety and audio work these are cheap as heck right now and you can put 16GB and 2 2.5" SSD/HDD in them easily. You could then have OSX and Windows 10 (boot camp), and firewire support as well.

My application is not "audio." It is this piggy application Audio Precision ships to control the analyzer. On my core i5-7400 machine, it takes 5 to 6 seconds just to open the folder that has the test templates! Switching from one mode of the software to another takes another 4 to 5 seconds.

With the new core i7-9700 these delays are cut in half so they are definitely wasting CPU cycles in a poorly written application.

Playback of audio doesn't take any CPU cycles at all unless you perform lots of DSP (DSD to PCM conversion for example).

 

[noel_fs]

@amirm you should look at buildzoid in YT for VRM reviews and related things. If money isnt an issue just go with some asus, they are always pretty good but pricey so its a safe purchase

 

[amirm]

@amirm you should look at buildzoid in YT for VRM reviews and related things. If money isnt an issue just go with some asus, they are always pretty good but pricey so its a safe purchase

I must have watched 100 videos on this thing by now on everything from CPUs to GPUs to motherboard and VRMs.

I should say though I don't find their VRM analysis informative at all. They just rattle off the chips used, phases and then make some random conclusion at the end. I don't get that any of them are electrical engineers and know how to test these things properly. Counting "amps" per phase and such is silly.

 

[Category 5]

I must have watched 100 videos on this thing by now on everything from CPUs to GPUs to motherboard and VRMs.

I should say though I don't find their VRM analysis informative at all. They just rattle off the chips used, phases and then make some random conclusion at the end. I don't get that any of them are electrical engineers and know how to test these things properly. Counting "amps" per phase and such is silly.

VRM analysis is really pointless unless you plan to overclock or overwork your CPU. Get any mid range or better ASUS or Gigabyte board that has the features you need and call it a day. Almost any reputable brand will outlast it's utility unless you make an error in assembly or overwork it.

I agree PSU is most important component. EVGA, Corsair, Seasonic are some of the best. My favorite are Corsair AXi series. They use digital regulation so they are immune to basically any external factor that can affect voltage and ripple is orders of magnitude below what is considered safe and acceptable.

It really is easy to overthink it all. Some of the higher model Gigabyte gaming boards have ESS 9018 based on-board audio. If you get one of those I'd love to see if their implementation was worth the part.

 

[duo8]

I must have watched 100 videos on this thing by now on everything from CPUs to GPUs to motherboard and VRMs.

I should say though I don't find their VRM analysis informative at all. They just rattle off the chips used, phases and then make some random conclusion at the end. I don't get that any of them are electrical engineers and know how to test these things properly. Counting "amps" per phase and such is silly.

Usually people only care about VRMs to the extent of how many amps they can provide, to make sure they won't explode trying to power their CPU.
What would you have liked to see instead?

Unrelated to the topic but I wonder why no one does audio DSP on GPUs. AMD tried a few years back but the tech just kinda died out.

 

[Category 5]

Usually people only care about VRMs to the extent of how many amps it can provide, to make sure they won't explode trying to power their CPU.
What would you have liked to see instead?

Unrelated to the topic but I wonder why no one does audio DSP on GPUs. AMD tried a few years back but the tech just kinda died out.

Acustica Audio does a little GPU acceleration with their plugins, but most of the really good DSP guys have said that GPUs are really good at parallel processing which isn't useful for processing audio streams, so while it can be done the difficulty involved isn't worth the benefit over CPU processing. This, especially now that CPUs are so powerful, and very good at DSP.

 

[amirm]

Usually people only care about VRMs to the extent of how many amps they can provide, to make sure they won't explode trying to power their CPU.
What would you have liked to see instead?

Efficiency of the power supply determines how much of those amps are actually available to you. And at any rate, I never see any measurements of amount of current the CPU is pulling anyway. Just some hand waving of "we have 400 amps so we are good."

 

[Rja4000]

About CPU
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
Looks like the AMD Ryzen 5 3600x is giving a lot of bang for the buck in single thread.

 

[duo8]

Efficiency of the power supply determines how much of those amps are actually available to you. And at any rate, I never see any measurements of amount of current the CPU is pulling anyway. Just some hand waving of "we have 400 amps so we are good."

You can see CPU power draw in software.
When you OC (automatic or not) the draw can quickly shoot up. I think the Intel 9900X can draw several hundred watts when OC'd which is pretty far from the 165W TDP. So you can see why people would want to know how much a board can handle.
Also, the output current rating is listed in the datasheet which is where the number comes from.

 

[Pillars]

Highly recommend Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX. Paired with a 9700K or 9600K, or to save money a used 8600K. I recommend this due to negligable price difference and better resale value+ability to clock as you please. If you have a Microcenter nearby the 9700K is currently $299 I believe and you get $30 off the board. Coupled with a 5% discount on all if you get or have a Microcenter credit card.

This board has been the best I've ever owned as far as being a mature platform right out of the box. No hiccups, XMP worked with several different kits and ICs and the auto voltages are NOT out of hand like most boards out there. I still recommend using OCCT, Asus Realbench (for stress testing) and undervolting the CPU though to get the coolest temps to enable the least noise from your fans for audio use. The fan settings on the board are very good as well and it supports dual m.2 nvme drives.

The board is ITX form factor so you can stuff it into small cases like the Inwin Chopin (For this case I'd recommend the 9/8600K undervolt/clock CPU or 9400 and the Noctua L9i) or go for something big but not too big like this : https://www.newegg.com/black-fractal-design-define-nano-s-mini-itx/p/N82E16811352061?Description=Fractal Define itx&cm_re=Fractal_Define_itx-_-11-352-061-_-Product - coupled with a nice 120mm tower cooler all fans on low with a hybrid fan power supply and you've got a near dead silent PC.

 

[amirm]

You can see CPU power draw in software.
When you OC (automatic or not) the draw can quickly shoot up. I think the Intel 9900X can draw several hundred watts when OC'd which is pretty far from the 165W TDP. So you can see why people would want to know how much a board can handle.
Also, the output current rating is listed in the datasheet which is where the number comes from.

I appreciate why they need it. It is the analysis that is lacking. Datasheet provides nominal ratings/max current ability. Devices in circuit don't work that way and have losses. Regardless, what I was disappointed about was them just reading part numbers after part numbers for boards. That doesn't say anything useful.

 

[zermak]

I mostly agree with you @amirm but it is better than nothing. I mean instead of randomly pick up a motherboard you have a way to pick one up and probably get one with a reasonable good power stage for your needs.
I can't get all these motherboards and inspect them for their power stages and so on, so it is good to have someone that does it for me plus he doesn't review them, he just comments on them; talking about Buildzoid.

 

[mkawa]

it's mostly a way to weed out the really cheap stuff. yes, it's possible to intelligently implement inexpensive fets to make something durable that performs well, but in the (literally) penny pinching world of the pc component aftermarket, that is generally not done.

there is also a certain amount of trust in the development groups for the enthusiast grade products at the major manufacturers that if they're tasked with implementing a 12 doubled phase vrm full of eg ir3555s, they will get somewhere near theoretical maximums for that set of drivers, and anywhere near maximum is massive overkill, and as such i should not have to worry about that portion of the board.

that said, it's really the wild west, and parts fail shockingly often regardless of what you do. there are few constants in life except for seasonic.

 

[ShiZo]

I use a gigabyte z390 aorus master and push 5ghz on all cores of my 8700k. It also has the functionality to turn off the usb bus power to the dac, I wonder if that does anything...

 

[duo8]

it's mostly a way to weed out the really cheap stuff. yes, it's possible to intelligently implement inexpensive fets to make something durable that performs well, but in the (literally) penny pinching world of the pc component aftermarket, that is generally not done.

there is also a certain amount of trust in the development groups for the enthusiast grade products at the major manufacturers that if they're tasked with implementing a 12 doubled phase vrm full of eg ir3555s, they will get somewhere near theoretical maximums for that set of drivers, and anywhere near maximum is massive overkill, and as such i should not have to worry about that portion of the board.

that said, it's really the wild west, and parts fail shockingly often regardless of what you do. there are few constants in life except for seasonic.

Seasonic have low end units that had bad batches before. Said units also use a decade old design.
It's never a good idea to judge on brand alone, even highly reputable ones.