suggestions for a winning dac

[jayapple]

Sorry, but that's nonsense.
SMSL, Sabaj, and Loxjie belong to a group of companies.
Topping has absolutely nothing to do with them.
While SMSL, Sabaj, and Loxjie largely build devices using standard designs from chip manufacturers and optimize them for measured values, Topping puts in a tremendous amount of development work on its devices and has some of its own circuits, some of which they have significantly enhanced.

Other manufacturers have repeatedly stolen Topping's circuits and developments, and in some cases even copied entire devices.
But since these companies didn't have topping's know-how, it didn't work so well.

The quality issues of TOPPING's AMP are well-known in this forum, and it's not just one product; they all share the same design.

SMSL and other brands are no different, so these products all have quality risks. If you're buying them to throw away after a year, then I have nothing to say.

Their products can only last for a year, which coincides with their one-year warranty.

Almost no one buys their products in China, and their reputation is very bad. I'm sharing my real experience to tell everyone not to buy them!

 

[Joe Smith]

I don't own Topping, but have been pleased with the build quality of what I've purchased from SMSL, Fosi and Aiyima. No problems to date. I have SMSL Class D amps from 10 years ago, they are still working fine.

 

[jayapple]

I don't own Topping, but have been pleased with the build quality of what I've purchased from SMSL, Fosi and Aiyima. No problems to date. I have SMSL Class D amps from 10 years ago, they are still working fine.

In fact, I also have an old-fashioned SMSL player. I'm currently using it because I can't stand the clicking noise of the new models, especially when switching songs.

Ironically, the old model is less powerful than the new one, but its quality is better than that of the new DAC...
This clicking sound might be a design issue. The hardware might not have any problems, but I just can't accept this sound. What's even more tragic is their after-sales service. It's almost non-existent.

My FOSI AMP had a minor problem, and they simply sent me a new one right away. This is the after-sales service!

 

[Talisman]

Topping that washes its hands and does not care about a user who has a problem... Why does it not surprise me?
The only thing that surprises me is that some continue to buy their products despite a manifest disinterest in the consumer (see PA5 story og)

 

[scruffy1]

FYI

Article from SoundGuys

Don't waste your money on a DAC

Do you really need an external DAC for better audio? Most audio setups don't benefit from pricey DACs and what truly improves sound quality.

www.soundguys.com

oh well, i guess my increased enjoyment is pure artifact... that article is bollocks

but it's better using the topping than the dac in my nad d3020, or the onboard sound from the motherboard which is the attached home theatre, and my "wired" source of digital input

the topping is "better" than the tone board is, which is in turn better than the other 2 dac choices above

but that might reflect the rest of my chain of gear making the difference audible; no, i don't aspire to magic cables in that set up



regardless, i was happy with the product until it failed, and the 2 other topping products i have owned were both fine... the tp22 tripath amp is still great for what it does (although currently not in service, but perfect to drive an ancient but gorgeous pair of wharfedale diamond 3's)

it would seem more likely the enshittification of electronics is pretty much the standard with every other "consumer" product of recent years - they are all considered disposable if they last > warranty (which also exhibits shrinkflation wrt period of cover), but it is clear that europe at least seems to try and address that deficiency via legislation, even though that can't make equipment more reliable... but it can make vendors more responsible for remedy when things go bad

imho (and prior experiences), electronics used to either fail early or last for impressive periods... but the bluetooth in the e70 has broken that spell



meanwhile, back on topic, rather than a pile on for topping

fwiw, shenzen audio represent a whole lot of chinese audio gear, and most are manufactured in china, but so is almost everything

 

[Audionaut]

Almost no one buys their products in China, and their reputation is very bad. I'm sharing my real experience to tell everyone not to buy them!

That is interesting. Which companies enjoy an excellent reputation in China itself?

 

[jayapple]

That is interesting. Which companies enjoy an excellent reputation in China itself?

You know, those brands like DENON and Marantz have Chinese agents. Although their mid-to-low-end products have very poor cost-effectiveness but the after-sales service is still decent.

However, for the independently sold products like SMSL topping, the after-sales service is really poor. But it doesn't matter. I have already sold all their products.

Another thing is that FOSI has excellent after-sales service. When they find a problem, they directly send me a new one. This is really beyond my expectation.

 

[Audionaut]

You know, those brands like DENON and Marantz have Chinese agents

Thanks for the feedback @jayapple
But I actually meant: Which Chinese audio products enjoy an excellent reputation in China itself?

Apart from the Class D amplifier companies, I have seen and heard Xindak, Jungson, Shanling and Dussun / Korsun devices here in Germany, for example.
Are they even known in China itself?
What do you think of Aiyima and O-Noorus?
SMSL and Topping seem to have disappointed you.

 

[winnor]

Almost no one buys their products in China, and their reputation is very bad. I'm sharing my real experience to tell everyone not to buy them!

That is interesting. Which companies enjoy an excellent reputation in China itself?

HOLO、Denafrips、Auralic、Xangsane、Opera、LHY、Gustard、Wiim
I am a music lover in China. The quality of audio products in the Chinese market varies greatly. I only buy products that are exported to Europe and the United States and have received positive reviews.

 

[scruffy1]

holy necro thread revival, batman! but i just wanted to offer a link over to this thread where i revealed the solution to my bluetooth dilemma

onoz! another cheap chinese device... but it's working out quite happily for what i need, and bluetooth 5.4 is an improvement in some respects despite being a lower tier chip - the range is better, and the ability to have 2 devices paired at the same time with auto-assignment to whichever is actively sending music (and ignoring any other trying to butt in) is really schmick; saves having to remember to unpair to free the device for another local source

for quite cheap, it punches above its weight

 

[Holmz]

…
Unless the failure of the BT functionality in your E70 is due to its design fault, I would have no problem choosing it again.
…

Some of their other gear fails, so the likelihood of a design fault is probably >0.

 

[Roland68]

Some of their other gear fails, so the likelihood of a design fault is probably >0.

And you conclude that from what?

Five years ago, Topping had an ESD issue with the L30. These devices were replaced at the customer's premises.
The other issue only affects the four devices with encapsulated modules filled with encapsulant. These devices were the PA5, A90D, A70 Pro, and LA90(D), where the encapsulant caused a problem. Since this usually happened within the first year, most customers were able to replace or return the devices.
In the meantime, Topping seems to have stopped using this casting compound.
With the remaining devices, including the last generation PA5 II, A90D, A70 Pro, and LA90(D), there has been no mention of an unusual number of failures. Even though users repeatedly claim otherwise.

 

[Holmz]

And you conclude that from what?

Five years ago, Topping had an ESD issue with the L30. These devices were replaced at the customer's premises.
The other issue only affects the four devices with encapsulated modules filled with encapsulant. These devices were the PA5, A90D, A70 Pro, and LA90(D), where the encapsulant caused a problem. Since this usually happened within the first year, most customers were able to replace or return the devices.
In the meantime, Topping seems to have stopped using this casting compound.
With the remaining devices, including the last generation PA5 II, A90D, A70 Pro, and LA90(D), there has been no mention of an unusual number of failures. Even though users repeatedly claim otherwise.

A sample set of 1.

The power amp I got from Amazon hissed like a basket at a pentacostal revival, and I returned it.
Others were not so lucky and their’s gave up the smoke after the warrenty.

There are many DACs and I chose an RME. Other’s choose other DACs.

 

[scruffy1]

fwiw, the dac bit still works beautifully and i am really happy with the way it makes the music happen, and the 12v trigger, and the auto-dimming, and...

the issue is that all devices can fail, but some after sales service is better than others (of which topping's was rather non-existent) - but that's not the bit i listen to if it's working

 

[Holmz]

fwiw, the dac bit still works beautifully and i am really happy with the way it makes the music happen, and the 12v trigger, and the auto-dimming, and...

the issue is that all devices can fail, but some after sales service is better than others (of which topping's was rather non-existent) - but that's not the bit i listen to if it's working

Ok…
Most people are happy with what they got.
Maybe that is a post-hoc rationalisation or some such.

 

[scruffy1]

maybe it's because we're "listening to it" in our chain and it is agreeably lovely

 

[Holmz]

maybe it's because we're "listening to it" in our chain and it is agreeably lovely

Or they are largely all the same?

 

[scruffy1]

nah, if you wish to read the entire story from above :

but it's better using the topping than the dac in my nad d3020, or the onboard sound from the motherboard which is the attached home theatre, and my "wired" source of digital input
the topping is "better" than the tone board is, which is in turn better than the other 2 dac choices above
but that might reflect the rest of my chain of gear making the difference audible; no, i don't aspire to magic cables in that set up

largely the same may be true, but homebrew and bollinger are largely the same if you are not fussy