suggestions for a winning dac

[scruffy1]

the bluetooth on my topping e70 has died, and local supplier can't repair; an independent tech can replace the bluetooth , but it is a bespoke module that topping have declined to supply... i am awaiting (with no great hope) that my personal request for some support from shenzen may encourage them to keep a previously satisfied user from losing the faith, but i guess we live in disinterested times

in the event that i am screwed, the shopping list (noting the things i love(d) about the e70) would be to include hopefully:

• onboard power supply
• bluetooth - which would be 5.1 including ldac as minimum
• usb in... (coaxial and optical are excess to requirements, but not unhappy to have)
• dimmable screen (even better if it turns off completely after initial settings completed, unless woken up)
• 12v trigger
• sinad of similar quality to the e70
• agnostic as to ess or akm chip, as long as it sounds like angels singing

i don't need the xlr stuff

presently, the smsl d6s seems to tick a lot of boxes at a far cheaper price point, but lack of 12v trigger is a sad omission, though i could live without it

the local supplier has offered a cheap deal on a FiiO BR13 as a "repair" of the deficiency, which seems a nasty compromise and adds a likely inferior component to the chain



oh, i would be keen to have something that is reliable, or failing that fantasy, serviceable in oceania without having to sell a kidney for sponsoring that facility


so, what other products would the learned forum suggest i consider? or do i get another topping an cross my fingers ? bear in mind the dac still sounds fantastic, but that's only part of its charm

thanks for any help

 

[Roland68]

the bluetooth on my topping e70 has died, and local supplier can't repair; an independent tech can replace the bluetooth , but it is a bespoke module that topping have declined to supply... i am awaiting (with no great hope) that my personal request for some support from shenzen may encourage them to keep a previously satisfied user from losing the faith, but i guess we live in disinterested times

in the event that i am screwed, the shopping list (noting the things i love(d) about the e70) would be to include hopefully:

• onboard power supply
• bluetooth - which would be 5.1 including ldac as minimum
• usb in... (coaxial and optical are excess to requirements, but not unhappy to have)
• dimmable screen (even better if it turns off completely after initial settings completed, unless woken up)
• 12v trigger
• sinad of similar quality to the e70
• agnostic as to ess or akm chip, as long as it sounds like angels singing

i don't need the xlr stuff

presently, the smsl d6s seems to tick a lot of boxes at a far cheaper price point, but lack of 12v trigger is a sad omission, though i could live without it

the local supplier has offered a cheap deal on a FiiO BR13 as a "repair" of the deficiency, which seems a nasty compromise and adds a likely inferior component to the chain



oh, i would be keen to have something that is reliable, or failing that fantasy, serviceable in oceania without having to sell a kidney for sponsoring that facility


so, what other products would the learned forum suggest i consider? or do i get another topping an cross my fingers ? bear in mind the dac still sounds fantastic, but that's only part of its charm

thanks for any help

A tip from experience: Sell the E70 with the defective Bluetooth and buy a new DAC. Sometimes this is cheaper than repairing it.

There's currently a customer return E70 listed on Amazon DE as "Used: Like New" for €249.

 

[Roland68]

Alternatively, there are BT receivers with 5.1, LDAP, and Toslink or coax outputs for as little as €20-30. They're no worse than the internal one.

 

[JSmith]

12v trigger

Hey mate.

Maybe check out the D50 III, has a 12V trigger and is around AUD$400 locally or less from OS;

Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D50 III balanced stereo DAC with support for parametric equalization. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $229. Sorry for the quality of the picture/display. It is quite dim compared to my photography light and when I tried to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

D50 III - TOPPING AUDIO

www.toppingaudio.com

An added bonus is PEQ for the USB audio.


JSmith

 

[scruffy1]

thanks for replies... i can of course sell the e70 to anyone who could live without bluetooth; it's otherwise in "as new" condition (which is why i am keen to have the repair, because i can easily afford something "new", but i resent chucking an otherwise perfect solution because topping are disinterested in offering reasonable service

as such, despite the d50iii looking good, i will be very disinclined to trust topping again (even though i had a d10 dac and still have a tp22 tripath amp that is pretty sweet)

the e-waste mentality of the company is huge disincentive - although i don't doubt other manufacturers are probably happy to provide oblique "reasons to upgrade"


but i can't resist - how easy is peq, and is it much use for speakers vs headphones? i have already played around with "equalizer apo64" for my q701 and focal elears, and quite liked the adjustments it tweaked

more suggestions gratefully welcomed

 

[JSmith]

as such, despite the d50iii looking good, i will be very disinclined to trust topping again

Yeah I know, once bitten twice shy etc., many would feel the same.

I only recommended it to you as it has the 12V trigger... if you can get by without that, there are many more options available with the features you need.

PEQ somewhere in your chain is a must though IMO.

EQ Software for Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS/iPadOS and Android.

Any suggestions are welcome. Post suggestions here. I will gather the details and add them. Thanks. :D This will be organized as results come in. @sweetchaos made a guide for PEQ filter data input and operation. For crossover software go here. Windows: AutoEQ four easy steps to make your...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[johny_2000]

The Topping E70 uses a Qualcomm QCC5125 Bluetooth mini-module soldered to the DAC board. You can buy this module for ~$20 and have your tech re-solder it.

 

[jkim]

If you want a DAC on par with the Topping E70 in regard to pure technical performance (whether it's audibly more transparent or not), your choice is pretty much limited to SMSL and Topping (and other Chinese brands).

Unless the failure of the BT functionality in your E70 is due to its design fault, I would have no problem choosing it again.

Or if you simply want to have something else, the D50 III suggested by JSmith is a solid choice.

Or if you want to try another brand, how about Fosi Audio ZD3? The only reason why its SINAD is slightly lower than other DACs' at the top of Amir's chart must be due to its use of LME49720's driving its buffer / line level rather than OPA1612's used in most of the top-performing DACs. Should we care? Absolutely not.

I once considered the ZD3, but its form factor was not to my liking---too deep.

 

[scruffy1]

The Topping E70 uses a Qualcomm QCC5125 Bluetooth mini-module soldered to the DAC board. You can buy this module for ~$20 and have your tech re-solder it.

yes, but it has a bespoke daughter board i believe, meaning the chip itself is not going to fix the issue if some other part of that connection is the problem, so it really is a job for rhe topping people to manage (and we know they aren't making it easy)

for the time and $ involved having just the qualcomm replaced, it's a crap shoot at best

 

[scruffy1]

If you want a DAC on par with the Topping E70 in regard to pure technical performance (whether it's audibly more transparent or not), your choice is pretty much limited to SMSL and Topping (and other Chinese brands).

Unless the failure of the BT functionality in your E70 is due to its design fault, I would have no problem choosing it again.

Or if you simply want to have something else, the D50 III suggested by JSmith is a solid choice.

Or if you want to try another brand, how about Fosi Audio ZD3? The only reason why its SINAD is slightly lower than other DACs' at the top of Amir's chart must be due to its use of LME49720's driving its buffer / line level rather than OPA1612's used in most of the top-performing DACs. Should we care? Absolutely not.

I once considered the ZD3, but its form factor was not to my liking---too deep.

zd3 has lots to like... but no 5.1 or LDAC, so it's close but no cigar

however, i'm loving the education, so thanks and keep 'em coming, folks !

 

[Roland68]

thanks for replies... i can of course sell the e70 to anyone who could live without bluetooth; it's otherwise in "as new" condition (which is why i am keen to have the repair, because i can easily afford something "new", but i resent chucking an otherwise perfect solution because topping are disinterested in offering reasonable service

as such, despite the d50iii looking good, i will be very disinclined to trust topping again (even though i had a d10 dac and still have a tp22 tripath amp that is pretty sweet)

the e-waste mentality of the company is huge disincentive - although i don't doubt other manufacturers are probably happy to provide oblique "reasons to upgrade"


but i can't resist - how easy is peq, and is it much use for speakers vs headphones? i have already played around with "equalizer apo64" for my q701 and focal elears, and quite liked the adjustments it tweaked

more suggestions gratefully welcomed

If you want something with service and support, your options are pretty much limited to RME and Violectric/Lake People, or maybe a handful of other manufacturers.

Most people don't realize that even the major manufacturers have increasingly restricted their service and support over the past 10 years, so the difference in this regard is becoming increasingly smaller, and it's much more important which retailer I buy from (due to returns).

 

[JSmith]

@scruffy1, buy from a local seller mate, even if it costs a bit more... as at least then you're covered by ACL. A reasonable person would expect to get more than 2 years out of a DAC, repair, replace etc.

So is the 12V trigger a must, or just BT?

JSmith

 

[johny_2000]

yes, but it has a bespoke daughter board i believe, meaning the chip itself is not going to fix the issue if some other part of that connection is the problem

You need to replace the entire Qualcomm BT module, not the chip. That's why I pointed out the available build.

 

[Joe Smith]

New baby DAC also coming out from Fosi in the V3 family soon...if you happen to like that compact size...I think its specs are pretty good...they are sending me a copy to use and review (other than on here)...

 

[Roland68]

You need to replace the entire Qualcomm BT module, not the chip. That's why I pointed out the available build.

View attachment 440833 View attachment 440834

But no one can say whether the module was updated with its own firmware for Topping, which often happens, and/or even with a special layout.
There's also a significant risk of further defects during the repair, and the module may not be the problem.

With an external 5.1 LDAP module for one of the digital ports costing €/$20-35, I definitely wouldn't take the risk.

 

[jayapple]

I have a twin brother of SMSL D6S model called DL200. At first, many people said that it had a "slap-slap" noise. Mine didn't have it. But now, it has been broken for a year since I started using it.

It started making the "slap-slap" sound. I sent it to them, but it took half a month for them to reply and tell me that the test showed no problem. This is just bullshit!
My suggestion is not to purchase any products from SMSL or TOPPING. They are essentially the same company. The quality is already problematic, and when there is a problem, they just shift the blame and refuse to solve it.

I bought a product from FOSI before, and when there was a problem, they immediately replaced it for me. I suggest you consider this brand! I'm planning to purchase the DAC from FOSI!

 

[JSmith]

They are essentially the same company.

Nah, they're different... although they do share outsourced manufacturing for some models.


JSmith

 

[jayapple]

Although the product costs only a few money, the way and attitude they adopt to handle problems are really disappointing. It's no wonder that few people in China purchase their products.
I bought several PCBs on Taobao and I myself made a DAC. It didn't even last a year before it broke down.

I would like to once again strongly advise everyone not to purchase any products from SMSL/TOPPING. There is no after-sales service at all.

 

[Roland68]

I have a twin brother of SMSL D6S model called DL200. At first, many people said that it had a "slap-slap" noise. Mine didn't have it. But now, it has been broken for a year since I started using it.

It started making the "slap-slap" sound. I sent it to them, but it took half a month for them to reply and tell me that the test showed no problem. This is just bullshit!
My suggestion is not to purchase any products from SMSL or TOPPING. They are essentially the same company. The quality is already problematic, and when there is a problem, they just shift the blame and refuse to solve it.

I bought a product from FOSI before, and when there was a problem, they immediately replaced it for me. I suggest you consider this brand! I'm planning to purchase the DAC from FOSI!

Sorry, but that's nonsense.
SMSL, Sabaj, and Loxjie belong to a group of companies.
Topping has absolutely nothing to do with them.
While SMSL, Sabaj, and Loxjie largely build devices using standard designs from chip manufacturers and optimize them for measured values, Topping puts in a tremendous amount of development work on its devices and has some of its own circuits, some of which they have significantly enhanced.

Other manufacturers have repeatedly stolen Topping's circuits and developments, and in some cases even copied entire devices.
But since these companies didn't have topping's know-how, it didn't work so well.

 

[unpluggged]

Topping puts in a tremendous amount of development work

topping's know-how