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Suggestion

SkyTrax79

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I'm just thinking about a cool suggestion:

After reading a hundred posts on this forum, I think every member should receive a free Topping DAC. It's phenomenal the amount of times Topping's name is mentioned in these pages and it's always positive. If the forum isn't sponsored by Topping, it's surely because of you that they're in business and who made them known.
 

Steven Holt

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Well, Topping is mentioned a lot, but not always in a positive light. We're objective people here, and we's calls 'em as we's sees 'em. I have a DAC and I have an amp, both Topping, and have never had any trouble with them.
 

Ron Texas

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I'm just thinking about a cool suggestion:

After reading a hundred posts on this forum, I think every member should receive a free Topping DAC. It's phenomenal the amount of times Topping's name is mentioned in these pages and it's always positive. If the forum isn't sponsored by Topping, it's surely because of you that they're in business and who made them known.
I would prefer a free pair of KEF Blade 2 Metas and an amp to drive them. While the giveaways are open, a Mercedes G wagon would be nice too.
 

sweetchaos

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The Audio Science Review (ASR) forum has a strong reputation for its rigorous and data-driven reviews of audio equipment, including Topping products. The forum focuses heavily on objective measurements and technical performance, often highlighting products that excel in these areas.

Topping products frequently receive high marks on ASR because they tend to perform exceptionally well in these objective tests. Reviews often praise Topping's DACs and amplifiers for their outstanding measurements, such as low noise and distortion levels, which align with the forum's emphasis on empirical data.

However, this does not necessarily indicate a bias towards Topping. While Topping products are often recommended due to their high performance relative to their price, the forum's discussions also feature criticism when issues arise. For example, there have been discussions about reliability problems with certain Topping models, like the PA5 amplifier, and users have expressed dissatisfaction with how some issues were handled by the company.

Overall, the positive reception of Topping products on ASR seems to be a result of their strong technical performance rather than any inherent bias. The forum values data-driven evaluations, and Topping's products frequently meet these stringent standards.
 

Chrispy

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What a bizarro post and point of view. Topping brand I've seen mentioned, really know nothing about them as don't shop in that arena....
 

solderdude

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If the forum isn't sponsored by Topping, it's surely because of you that they're in business and who made them known.

Except ... ASR is not sponsored by Topping. This is a rumor started by SBAF.
SBAF is sponsored though, just not by Topping and they don't get devices sent in by Topping.
ASR is sponsored a bit by donations of members.

The reason Topping is mentioned (measured and recommended) a lot is simply because of good measurements and low price.
That said, lately more and more expensive models have been coming out that are not cheap at all and are not much better performers than the cheapest models they have.

The only topping I have is the E30 (the version where the polarity bug was already fixed)
 
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Robin L

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I don 't need any more Topping than what I've already got.

Funny thing, my Topping L30 still has the best SINAD of all headphone amps tested here even though it's nearly four years old and very cheap.
 

kemmler3D

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Topping gets the credit it deserves for putting out gear that measures well, but you don't have to look hard to find threads where people question the reliability in pretty harsh terms, either. Honestly I think this forum could be a little unfair towards Topping, even! But I don't know because we don't have actual failure rates, just hunches.

Either way I do think ASR has probably done a lot for Topping's sales. I've bought 3 Topping units, would never have done so if I hadn't read reviews here. And ASR gets millions of visits per year. So that's got to add up to something. If I did marketing for topping I'd have a little picture of Amir in a heart-shaped frame on my desk. ;)
 

ta240

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Keep in mind that when someone questions the reliability of Topping equipment the complaints are often dismissed as anecdotal. No matter how many there are. I've personally had a couple Topping components die in around a year. My JDS Labs and Pro-Ject replacements have run, trouble free for many times that long now.

Even one of the comments above in such a short thread mentions "(the version where the polarity bug was already fixed)".

And in comparison to the 'unfair' comments that Topping gets, what was that introductory model Sony receiver that was bashed so thoroughly for dying when Amir managed to get it to not shut down when he was playing a sinewave through it. Yet, at the time there wasn't a single review of it online, out of hundreds, where a person had theirs fail while playing.... wait for it.... music.

I think, due to their focus on SNR Topping gets a pass on many issues here. But, I guess a dead product has the least distortion of all.
 

JZZ30

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The Audio Science Review (ASR) forum has a strong reputation for its rigorous and data-driven reviews of audio equipment, including Topping products. The forum focuses heavily on objective measurements and technical performance, often highlighting products that excel in these areas.

Topping products frequently receive high marks on ASR because they tend to perform exceptionally well in these objective tests. Reviews often praise Topping's DACs and amplifiers for their outstanding measurements, such as low noise and distortion levels, which align with the forum's emphasis on empirical data.

However, this does not necessarily indicate a bias towards Topping. While Topping products are often recommended due to their high performance relative to their price, the forum's discussions also feature criticism when issues arise. For example, there have been discussions about reliability problems with certain Topping models, like the PA5 amplifier, and users have expressed dissatisfaction with how some issues were handled by the company.

Overall, the positive reception of Topping products on ASR seems to be a result of their strong technical performance rather than any inherent bias. The forum values data-driven evaluations, and Topping's products frequently meet these stringent standards
Reading reasoned and measured responses like this is one of the reasons I like ASR. Fewer internet histrionics due to subjectivity being sidelined.
 

holdingpants01

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I have no use for DAC only, I would like to get Revel or KEF speakers with it, Wiim Pro to stream something from and maybe Neumann KH150s with RME interface for my other room with DCA Stealth for late night listening
 

kemmler3D

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But, I guess a dead product has the least distortion of all.
Au contraire, it's the most distortion you can get as the output has nothing to do with the input anymore. ;)

I am often saying we can't judge Topping reliability based on anecdote. Which is technically true. And this is a science-based site so I think we should have a little restraint when we don't have actual data to consider. But frankly, if you asked me to place a bet on which brands are most reliable, I wouldn't put any money on Topping, either.

Even so, I have 2 bits of Topping gear in my house at the moment. Will they last? Dunno. But they are strong in price / performance either way.

Same goes for my LS60s, I guess. Maybe I just like living on the edge.
 

Mart68

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I'd say Topping made themselves known by actively sending their products here for review and not waiting for a member who owns one to send it in to be tested.

Since they measure well (okay, maybe the amps not so much) and are not a rip-off in terms of price, they get sales as a result.

That they offer good performance at a low price is what makes them stand out from many other manufacturers of DACs who are charging thousands for the exact same thing, and are therefore reluctant to be exposed to scrutiny by submitting their products for testing.
 

antcollinet

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I'm just thinking about a cool suggestion:

After reading a hundred posts on this forum, I think every member should receive a free Topping DAC. It's phenomenal the amount of times Topping's name is mentioned in these pages and it's always positive. If the forum isn't sponsored by Topping, it's surely because of you that they're in business and who made them known.
You've not been looking hard enough. A 69 page thread, most of it not complementary about topping at all:



As a direct result of what I've read at ASR, topping has gone from a company which I regularly checked for new products, waiting for them to produce my ideal amp - to one where I have little interest in investing any significant money in their products.
 

MCH

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Actually, yesterday I was thinking, seems that topping and ASR have parted ways. At some point, @amirm used to review topping devices on launch day, and the last DAC even had a member review before the official one. There is a thread with a bunch of new topping devices, including speakers, IEMs, interfaces... and not a single word from @JohnYang1997
It seems to me that topping is just moving to the pro world and ARS is probably not that interested, and not that interesting for them anymore.
 
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MaxwellsEq

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If the forum isn't sponsored by Topping,
It's not sponsored by Topping.

Because manufacturers don't sponsor the forum, and there are no advertisements, people are free to express a fact-based statement about any vendor.

I think there is a bias towards cheaper, lighter and smaller gear, due to the approach of members shipping products to Amir to be added to the testing queue. Similarly very, very heavy or large items, or rare products are less likely to get shipped. So $20k amplifiers and DACs, or 100 KG products don't show up here very frequently.
 

ta240

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Au contraire, it's the most distortion you can get as the output has nothing to do with the input anymore. ;)

I am often saying we can't judge Topping reliability based on anecdote. Which is technically true. And this is a science-based site so I think we should have a little restraint when we don't have actual data to consider. But frankly, if you asked me to place a bet on which brands are most reliable, I wouldn't put any money on Topping, either.
As I mentioned, I don't remember any call for restraint during the bashing of Sony over a very unique failure in their bargain priced receiver, with zero evidence to back it up as something that would or has happened in the real world. IF this site, as a whole, wasn't biased towards a brand then the arguments should be similar.
Either, have restraint or don't have it but don't say that you should when it comes to some products and then not with others.

Heck, I don't even see calls for restraint when bashing happens on old or refurbished equipment where there is no way to tell how close its current state is to the way it left the factory.

Bashing seems to be a popular pastime on here, with only one brand ever really consistently defended when it happens.

Even so, I have 2 bits of Topping gear in my house at the moment. Will they last? Dunno. But they are strong in price / performance either way.
Eventually, after they've used enough of us as paying beta testers they should get somethings to last.
 
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antcollinet

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IF this site, as a whole, wasn't biased towards a brand then the arguments should be similar.
This site is not a hive mind. We are not a borg collective.

The posts you read are the posts of many individuals, any bias you might perceive can only be due to the average expectations and responses of those individuals to the behaviours and performance of individual brands.

A couple of examples:
  • There is a tendency here to favour brands that participate in the forum. Topping does this, by posting, by sending devices for review, and responding to feedback. Sony does not.
  • Sony is a global established brand with a long history of quality. That may well set higher expectations on them, than on a new and disruptive brand, such as Topping.

And so on.
with only one brand ever really consistently defended when it happens.

There is a 69 page thread here which consists mostly of "bashing" (as you put it) Topping. I linked it above.
 

ta240

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This site is not a hive mind. We are not a borg collective.
You can say that as often as you want, however when the reactions to certain products are nearly always the same from the group then the group must all agree.

The posts you read are the posts of many individuals, any bias you might perceive can only be due to the average expectations and responses of those individuals to the behaviours and performance of individual brands.

A couple of examples:
  • There is a tendency here to favour brands that participate in the forum. Topping does this, by posting, by sending devices for review, and responding to feedback. Sony does not.
Favoring brands that send products as free advertising for themselves seems very silly for a, so called, science based site. Even some youtube reviewers will admit in their reviews that the companies that send them products may pick the best example of their product to send.

Which, again, these hand picked products are often compared to products of questionable background and condition, without a single mention of either situation.

  • Sony is a global established brand with a long history of quality. That may well set higher expectations on them, than on a new and disruptive brand, such as Topping.
The expectations should be the same. Giving just one brand a pass on quality issues is a disservice to the readers of this forum. Again, it turns the people that read the rave reviews here into paying beta testers.

It reminds me of the car magazines/sites where they rave about the performance of a car and don't mention anywhere that that model has terrible reliability ratings from multiple sources.

The reviews and comments aren't even just tempered with a mention of reliability issues thrown in with the raves about great, and often inaudible, performance gains. Which, I have yet to see any double blind test that proves that the 'disruptive' brand creates anything that the users can even hear the difference between.

There is a 69 page thread here which consists mostly of "bashing" (as you put it) Topping. I linked it above.
So, one thread exists where the people with negative experiences weren't shouted down fast enough, that proves very little. Because, every other thread where their reliability is questioned it is immediately argued against.
 
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